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Episode 70
70 Debbie
Greg Lemoine 0:08 Welcome to the International Teacher podcast with your host, Matt the Family Guy can't can't die Jacqueline from JP men. And Greg, the single guy bringing you episodes from around the world about the best kept secret in education. You got it. International teaching. Welcome to the show.
Welcome to another episode of the ITP. This is Greg the single guy and I do have quite a crew here with me. I've got the Kent, the cat guy. How are you doing Kent? Great to be here single guy. So man, I've got Jacqueline tuning in from Mexico. How you doing, Jacqueline? I'm fantastic. I'm super excited about our guest today, Greg. Oh, I know. It's Debbie and she's coming in from Abuja, Nigeria. And Debbie, I think you're the first one from Africa calling in on an interview. I might be wrong about that. But please, everybody. Welcome Debbie. Debbie, how you doing tonight.
Debbie 1:12 Thank you. Thank you for having me here. I'm excited to be here with you guys. What we'd like to do Debbie right away is to get a little bit of a elevator version of how your journey went into international leading up to Abuja and a little bit how you want to present it. So.
All right, so I'm Brazilian, but I have Japanese background. And I was born in Peru. So it's a little bit confusing. But my dad is Japanese Peruvian. My mom is Japanese, Brazilian, they manage Japan.
And I was born in Peru or my parents started their life together. And then we moved to Brazil where I grew up and studied.
So from there, I grew up in Brazil. I knew some Spanish because that was my first language. And when I went to college, I thought why not using what I already have. And what I already know, into something that is new in Spanish was getting really popular in Brazil. But not many people were capable, like the universities we're starting to open up to, to be able to help people learn Spanish to become teachers and teach Spanish in schools. So I'm like, okay, so I may do that. And that's what I did. So I started I did my bachelor's degree in like, languages, English, Portuguese, Spanish. And then after that, I started my teaching career in Brazil. And then after that, I got an opportunity in the US with a, the VF program, the former VF program, visiting international faculty, which they brought people from all over from, like many countries in the world to teach in the US with the idea of like, the American citizens hardly ever go out. So why not bring internationals into the country, and have them teach in exchange culture with them. So that's what I did. That's why my international career started in the US in Charlotte, North Carolina, where I stayed for three years. And then my contract was over. And I thought, What am I going to do next? Is there anything out there for me, I don't want to go back to Brazil. So I actually ended up applying for with ISS to teach internationally. And I got an interview with God with a school in Turkey, which is Coach where where I met Jacqueline. So that was interesting for me, like was like four days of interviews and talking to people talking to different schools. And then all of a sudden I had a contract. And I'm like, Turkey it is I guess so I went to Turkey.
JP 4:01 So did you sorry, Debbie. I don't want to interrupt but did you go to a job fair? Or was it strictly through ISS like back and forth emails?
Debbie 4:10 I did go to a job fair. It was in San Francisco, the ISS Job Fair in San Francisco. So I interviewed with a few schools. I got two different offers one from Kuwait and one from coach. And then I ended up accepting the job in Turkey coach.
JP 4:28 So can I tell a funny story about Debbie and and getting her resume? So I was moving into the head of department ship and they said, hey, great news. We just hired our first new Spanish teacher and I was like, awesome. Can I see her CV? And I look at her CV and I go oh, crap, she's Brazilian. You guys know that. That's not Spanish, right? It's Portuguese. I was so worried that they had just hired a Portuguese teaching Spanish teacher I was so panicked. And then they said, no, no, we really interviewed her. She's really a Spanish teacher. And then I, you know, shortly after talked to her and was reassured Spanish was her mother tongue. And I was just excited to have her because of that extra bump of international bonus, you know, like, we're always looking to diversify departments and diversify schools. And if you're always hiring a Spanish teacher from Spain, it can get a little heavy, right? The whole departments all Spanish. But if you have a Brazilian with a Peru background coming in from North Carolina, I mean, it was just it was a perfect storm. So I was really excited to meet Debbie.
Debbie 5:43 Yeah, it was funny, because at the end of the interview, they were like, okay, so yeah, that's, that's great. You're accepting? Can you just say something in Spanish to us? 25.
Kent 5:55 I would like to add, Debbie that the rest of the stories that Jacqueline tells about you were reserving for our Patreon only episode. So I would like to tell the ITP P fans look forward to that. Debbie, I'm fascinated by your family. So Spanish was part of your household was Portuguese or Japanese, also part of your household?
Debbie 6:18 That is an interesting question. Because then I spent only three years in Peru, my first three years of life in Peru, and then we moved to Brazil. So I grew up in Brazil. Right? But so Portuguese is my mom's language. So yeah, so that's what we speak within the family. Okay, but Japanese because my dad is second generation of Japanese in Peru. And there's a huge colony of Japanese in Peru and in Brazil. My dad's part of the family, they speak more like a few words of Japanese here and there. So my dad is second generation, but his Japanese is not great. Although his parents are Japanese. So it's kind of funny, but my cousins, they all speak Japanese. I don't speak English. But my cousins, they all like in Peru, they all speak Japanese, my family in Brazil, we are fourth generation Japanese outside of Japan. So we're very resilience. So we love Japanese, our last name is Japanese. But with Brazilian, you
Kent 7:23 I want to add real fast. And I think fans of the ITP might know this is that I'm second generation Japanese out of the United States. But my father, who's both his parents came from Japan and settled in California where he was born, speaks no Japanese, there was no common language between his mother and him. Oh, wow,
JP 7:43 that is interesting.
Speaker 2 7:45 Yeah, very interesting. They seem to work. You know,
JP 7:48 Kent is now studying Japanese Debbie, because of his inherit his heritage.
Speaker 2 7:55 That's right. I speak about like a baby, a Japanese preschooler, I might be able to pass. And so they put me on that little program where the kids like walk to the store, you know, like there was little three year olds, that could be me.
Debbie 8:08 That's better than me also, like,
Greg Lemoine 8:13 it explains a lot about Kent, if you really look at him, and she only acts she's very much a three year old.
JP 8:23 So Debbie, you you went to the job fair, you got informed or you know, hired by Coach School in Turkey. And that was you said, February, so from February to July, or June? How did you prepare for your first move? I guess, overseas, I mean, you know, from Brazil to us, if we don't count that within the Americas, your first overseas international teaching gig.
Debbie 8:52 I was actually overwhelmed. So I feel like that's how I say about the internet international life, right? They say like first year is when you're overwhelmed, because everything's new. So it's all crazy. So it's survival year, the second year where you're there, you see new people coming in, and you're still like, I've learned so much I can answer questions, you know, so it's just so much fun the second year, because you know what to expect, you know, when people are talking about things you already know, more or less what they're talking about. So it's pretty exciting. The second year, the third year, I feel it's a complicated year for thinking about leaving, because it's half of half of the year you're planning about, oh my gosh, what's going on? What's happening next? What's next? Am I gonna get a job? Where am I gonna get a job or how's it going to be? And then once you get it, the other half of the year is like you're half mourning the process like Oh, I'm leaving, oh my gosh, or and that but you're a half excited about moving and going somewhere. So it's kind of like difficult to navigate those kinds of feelings and people around, you are also trying to navigate those feelings, because you're leaving, but you're here, but maybe you're going to be gone. And a few, a few in a few months are like, Oh, you're already gone. Because you, you're leaving us anyways, you know, it's, it's so interesting how that works. And but my that year I remember I was a lot of my friends that came with me with the program, they were staying, they were planning to apply for a new type of visa, and they were planning to look for a job on their own and away from the program. And there were rumors that the program would be able to extend our visas and you know, it was going to be five years instead of three. But I ended up going to the job fair. And and for me, it was really fun talking to people interviewing, thinking about possibilities. So it was so much fun for me. But then preparing for it. It's kind of like this bittersweet kind of process. You don't know exactly. I had gone to Turkey, I think a year before. So I had and I was right in on the Asian siding, Khadija you know exactly. And so Kadikoy. So it's like, lots of people lots of life. And then I didn't know that Coach School was far away from civilization. Like, takes 45 minutes on a bus to get there and a highway kind of like, I didn't know that. So what I thought about Turkey was what I had seen before. So I'm like, okay, like preparing thinking about it, or I don't excited, because in like kind of relieved because I had something coming up. But not really sure what to expect. I don't think I thought through I missed the US a lot on my first year in Turkey. So it was tough, because life was
Speaker 3 11:54 Cushing because she had this really crazy redhead as a supervisor.
Debbie 11:58 No, that was the good side of it.
Kent 12:03 You know, Debbie, I think that you summed up very well, just the constant motion that there is to international teaching. And I think people coming it almost feels like an airport. Sometimes people coming people going, you know, it took Greg two years just to find the bathroom. So it is it is constant motion. And and I think that you know what, people who crave stability in their friendships and everything around them. It's quite a learning curve to go internationally and teaching because the people come and people go, and that sort of just that flexibility. I think you described it beautifully. Thank you for that.
Debbie 12:35 Yeah. And I feel like that's a constant for us. Right? Always trying to adjust and adapt and trying to create your own identity whenever you move. It's not an easy process. For me, it takes time for me to build my communities or to feel like this is actually home or, and you know, so I think there's a lot in there for sure.
Greg Lemoine 12:58 I think one of the things Debbie, and I've learned over the years, and maybe you guys have to all of all three of you is that I've learned how to say See you later down the road instead of goodbye. Right? It makes that that farewell a little bit easier for me. And I have you know, some people cry because I'm leaving and other people, you know, hold parties when I'm leaving. And
Kent 13:18 some people cry when they see you coming. It's
Greg Lemoine 13:21 exactly. Thank you, kid. There's that three year old again. Anyway. I just I think it's great that you've you've mentioned those feelings, because we don't I mean, you're one of the first that's really talked about the feelings that you have. It's overwhelming, in my opinion. The first what I've tried to do is that when I finally go and recruit, and I decided that I'm going to leave because you have that feeling. Jacqueline, did you have that feeling? You know that you had to leave? Right? Can't you probably had that feeling that you know, you or Carla knew that you had to leave that year. So you go and recruit so that first half of the year, you're looking for jobs, you're in the job recruiting stage, you're still teaching and give it 100%. And then what I found though, is that that second half is amazing, because I will hold back from doing any research, I will hold back and I will just focus on teaching. And as soon as that last day of school, then I'm like online and I'm researching everything I can about maybe the country I'm gonna go to, right because it's getting closer, but that's what I do. And I've been I've done that seven different times. So it's it's just my style and I don't have a spouse that comes with me. And therefore I don't have to worry about someone else is how else somebody else is feeling. So it's a little bit easier for me. But I think that those feelings are very important and I'm thank you for sharing that.
Debbie 14:47 Yeah, I feel like it helps me I don't like to start thinking about the new school until the end of the like, like you said Greg until the end of the school year because otherwise I'm too divided and it's the figure it's difficult to, to, to navigate that it's a lot. Because for me, it's hard to leave. Once you leave, it's kind of like, oh, okay, I left. But the thinking of leaving is like, it's hard. I remember my I was I worked in two different schools in Turkey. So first was coach, I was there for five years, I taught middle school, Spanish Middle School. And then I moved to another school district, that American Academy, and I taught there for three years. But I remember my last year, I had interviewed to go to, and I got a job and accepted a position in Myanmar. So when I was there, after I accepted that, my colleagues were like, one of my colleagues, she was like, oh, but you're not going to be here next year. So it was so terrible, my, my daughter was still here. But she was also trying to process the fact that I was not going to be there next year. So it's a lot of people like feeling sad that you're leaving to, you know, or it's you being sad that you're leaving, too, but also, like, you want to see things going. But at the same time, you don't worry about things the same way. Because you're like, I'm going, you know, like, I'm not I don't have to deal with that next year. So it's okay, I can deal with that now. But I don't have to deal with that next year. You know, so it's like, we're dealing with everybody's feelings as well. It can be very difficult.
Greg Lemoine 16:27 Should we have to talk about Myanmar next, right, because I only spent four hours in Myanmar. I was on a visa run from from Thailand, right. So we had to go there. And we had to get a stamp and they made us gamble and drink and wait for the stamper took us four hours in the lobby. Beautiful Hotel. Do you gamble and it was a beautiful hotel with these. I remember palm tree brand like palm tree leaves as tall as me. I mean, what a beautiful country. Right. So I want to hear about Myanmar. Now. Let's leave all the feelings behind. Let's move on to the excitement of Myanmar. Can we do that?
JP 17:04 But wait, but Wait, didn't hear how she got me. Mr. No, like, let's just take one fraction step back. Because I know a lot of our listeners want to hear how are people finding these jobs online? So let's talk about you were in Iskandar, you decided, okay, eight years, this is going to be it? I'm leaving turkey. So then how did you find me in March? Just take us a step.
Greg Lemoine 17:30 After we have a new co host. She takes over and organizes us too much. Can you believe it? Someone's got to organize us. Thank God she's here. All right. Yes, Debbie. Please go ahead.
Debbie 17:43 Yeah, Myanmar was interesting. Because I, I loved Turkey. And it's hard not to write then after you spend there. Quite a few. Yeah, yes, exactly knows exactly what I'm talking about. So. So it's, it's, it's amazing how chaotic it can be in the beginning, how crazy the school system can be in the beginning. But how, how then you you learn and how well then you you manage things and how well you make things happen for you at school. And then life is nice. I, I was very active at my church in Turkey too. So it was it was a very international community. So we were it was a really good group. We were it was it was just amazing. But at the same time, like I was there in Turkey during the time where there were some terrorist attacks going on. visas were starting not to be renewed for everybody. There were some it was a coup d'etat in a failed coup d'etat happened in one of the years that I was there. So things were getting a little bit strange. So a lot of people were fleeing Turkey, like the intellectuals in Turkey, people like professors from universities, they were trying to get away from from Turkey, people were being arrested. So it was a very political, politically tense. And in Turkey, I think Jacqueline can, I don't know what at least in in a few areas of life in Turkey, although things are very nice and very, you know, normal. But you feel the presence of the government there like whether it is in the education system, whether it is in the church system, like so you you kind of have this kind of sense that there's something out there that you know, like it is an interesting how that is. And it's hard to describe necessarily how how that feels. If you're not there if you don't live there, or if you're not involved in those kinds of things, but the government is very present. So when things started getting weird, my family started asking me, don't you think it might be time for you to start looking for different opportunities? I started thinking, I'm like, is it? Could it be like ISIS was there at some point, like, there were some, there were some, the there's tension within the country with the Kurdish people. So like, a few things were happening. And I thought, I've been here for eight years, it's going to be this is my eighth year in Turkey, if I don't leave now, there is nothing that I dislike about Turkey. But like, if I don't leave now, I'm gonna be here for if I if I stay here for 10 years, it's going to be hard. Because you get used to the system, you get used your life, you get used to things and, and then you get a bit too comfortable, right? And it's hard for you to put yourself out in the market again, or seeing like, Oh, this is happening outside or all this is how it's done. Or, you know, some like, you know what, I may try to do that. Or maybe I should just try and see what's out there. So I talked to my, my, my director at that time, and I said, Listen, I love turkey. I love the school. I love the kids, I have been so happy here. My kids were amazing. And the experience there is to that American Academy was so rewarding professionally. So I was so impressed with the level of the students with whatever I was getting. I'm like, I never thought it was possible. You know, my kids are speaking to me in Spanish. We're preparing them for this daily exam, and they're succeeding. And, you know, it's so nice to see it and they respond and they, we challenge them and they respond it nice. So it was so good to me as a teacher. I was so proud of my students. And I saw I told him that like I was really honest. I'm like, I love it. I love the school. I love the kids. I love everything. But I'm feeling like there's a lot of tension, like in in the air, political wise society. Why? So? I don't know, I just want to go and see what's out there. And in the job fair, there's a job fair happening now in, in Bangkok. So I will, I was planning on going there and seeing and the the director was so nice to me. And he said, You know what, I'm going to be recruiting at the end of January, you want to go to the job fair, you go to the job fair, if you find something for you, that you like, good for you. If you don't, we're happy to keep you. It was just so amazing to hear something like this the
JP 22:32 best case scenario, Debbie, where you can go to a job fair and have that guarantee you do not need to leave if you don't find something. But
Debbie 22:41 you know exactly what was funny about that, because there was no pressure. I couldn't sleep in that job fair. I just couldn't sleep. I was so anxious, because I think there was no pressure, there was no reason that I should leave. So why was I there? After all, you know, so it was so I took melatonin from people from some people. Like I said, I can't sleep, I cannot sleep. So it was so weird, because I'm like, why am I like that, because I have a job. I already have a job. But so there is no pressure for me to interview with people for me to get a job here. And yet, I'm anxious or more anxious than if I had to get a job. You know. So that was very interesting to me too, because I'm like, Okay. And then I ended up interviewing with a few schools, a few schools took a bit along to get back to me. And there's one school that I interviewed with first was Myanmar. And he just presented the school. She showed it to me, and I'm like, I'm like, Oh, this was the bottom. It was on the bottom of my list of the schools that I wanted, like a like, Oh, and there was my first interview. I'm like this guy, he might offer me a job. So I'm like, yeah, and then he did. And then he did and we had a few more interviews. And he was like, so how is Myanmar compared to the other school? Like, I have two schools that I am really interested in, but I need to hear from them. Could we schedule another interview, you know, so he was really the director was also very patient with me. And I signed my contract at the very end of the job fair, it was on a Sunday, lunchtime, and we were signing a contract. And that's how it happened. What
Greg Lemoine 24:32 I like about that story, the most I like about that story. Besides we're getting to Myanmar, is the fact that you picked a school that was not even on your radar. And so many guests, so many people that you talk to and I know it we all talk to at job fairs. The one thing everybody says is don't write off of place that you don't know or take a chance to at least interview with them because they might be gold. I did the same thing with Cam Bodia I had no idea was going to go there, etc you know long stories everyone has that little story in yours with bn Mar wasn't even on the radar. Right. I love that story. So you you you're at the jump very you sign the very last day. You went back and had all the feelings about leaving and, and all that stuff and Can I can I go on to Myanmar? No, Jacqueline. Okay, well, I just gotta check with the boss now. All right, Debbie, tell us about Myanmar.
Debbie 25:30 Myanmar was amazing. Me and Mar was amazing. But it was a lot to because I was there for COVID. And I was there. I was there in total for five years. So I was there for COVID and I was there for a coup d'etat that happened the year after COVID. They're
following you around.
Unknown Speaker 25:59 It might be it might be
Debbie 26:02 in Turkey was in a field, an attempt or fail to cook. But in Myanmar, it was a real thing.
Greg Lemoine 26:10 Ladies and gentlemen, our guest now is Debbie Coup. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. Debbie. You lived through a lot. If you've been through two coups already
JP 26:26 foreshadow and say that there were also issues in Nigeria. Stay tuned everybody through. Okay, but Myanmar, you got there? And did they roll out the red carpet? Did they greet you at the airport? Did they have an apartment ready for you? What was the landing like?
Debbie 26:47 It was the preparation before landing was amazing. We had this one teacher, Graham Anning Canadian. And he put our groups together like the newbies together and he created a Facebook group. The way he prepared the way for us was incredible. You know, like, it's like, okay, so I'm a teacher, like you guys, you know. So I will be here to answer questions, if you have any about the school about the country about things, you know, so every question that we had, he created a fun name for our group, like every group that would come there, we had a name, you know, so it was kind of like fun. The way he welcomed us the way he took our questions seriously. So whatever we asked, or even things that we didn't even imagine about asking, he would provide, like a few like, Oh, this is how the plugs look like in Myanmar? No, this is the voltage or this is that or look at the picture of, you know, like the rainy season or look at this, you know, so little things in hints that we could just like, oh, okay, so by the, by the time that I got there, I felt like I knew your brand. It's it was gram, you know, like, it was it was so nice in at the airport. So in order for things in Myanmar, complicated, I don't know if you know, Reg, but like, Myanmar was a military was under the military for a number of years. And then recently, they started with elections, democracy was starting. So it's a brand new country. So like, everything has to be watched as well. Right. So in terms of visas and stuff, our school provided a business visa for us. So we were there under a business visa. So for me for some of those for some citizens, depending on what country we're from, you had to process your visa in Thailand. And then from there, you would get your visa in Thailand. And then once you got it, you could fly to Myanmar, because it's neighboring countries, like it's an hour and a half away. It's a very short flight. For some people, they would arrive with a tourist visa. And then once they were there in the country, they could process their business visa. So it was different for different nationalities. So for me, I had to go to Thailand, process my visa there. And then there I met another colleague that I I knew from the Facebook group. So that was an amazing idea that Graham had to put us together. So we could talk a little bit we could know who was who you know, pictures. Friend, befriend people, you know, so I met him there at the embassy during the visa thing. So like, oh seven, you know, like, yeah, so we're traveling together. So I get to Myanmar, like I'm lending. And then so you I look through the window, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, what have I done? I mean, Myanmar, what if I don't like it? Oh, What if, what if I don't even know what if what if, you know, like, I'm like, Oh my gosh, it's real. Like we're landing right now, you know. So I look through the window, there's a lot of green because it was the rainy season. So I'm going through the escalators. And now all of a sudden, I see this shadow of a person back there, like just waving and like, Oh, that is growl you know, so that was so nice. You know, like having that. Oh, I know him i Although I didn't, you know, like, so I'm like, Okay, so there is someone waiting for me there is you know, things are going to be okay. It was such a nice feeling getting there. So we get there. We go through customs. Sure passport show everything documents goes through everything. And then here, there were there was Graham and my principal, my secondary principal waiting for me there at the airport. And then Stephen was there as well with his wife. So we will go all together. But then the best thing was when we got to the airport, and we got our suitcases, grandmas, I said, let's take a selfie. I'm like, I knew I wasn't the right place, then.
Unknown Speaker 31:16 I usually is the selfie queen.
Greg Lemoine 31:19 I thought you were gonna say let's have a beer first, you know, or something like this.
JP 31:26 Greg is the beer sorry,
Greg Lemoine 31:27 well, not really here. But yeah.
Kent 31:29 You know what I love about your description. Debbie is there's nothing like that first ride from the airport to your new accommodation. Whether it's, you know, the anxiety, the excitement, just that sort of whole cauldron of emotions is a strong moment, I think, at least for me, but I bet for most international teachers, and I just love the way that you you know, it's almost like you took that ride yesterday, from the airport to your place and the way you describe it. It's quite something.
Debbie 32:04 It was it was a nice, very warm welcome. And I feel that the welcoming committee or this is a very, very important role in a school, especially international school. Like we had that coach as well with Elaine. She would always welcome us as well. Well, as soon as we got there, there was like, a welcome package with things like these are Turkish things or sit this is how people use it. Like, it's just little things, but it makes you feel so welcome. And it's a it's important,
JP 32:36 Debbie, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you went ahead and became that coordinator when Graham left.
Debbie 32:43 I was with him. Actually, I was with him. We work together because I'm like, I want to join that I want to help. I want to help do that as well.
JP 32:54 So you paid it forward by becoming one of the coordinators.
Debbie 32:58 Yeah, I loved it. And there were three of us in the committee. And it was such an amazing and rewarding experience. Yes.
Greg Lemoine 33:09 All right, let's take a moment for a little commercial about how to get in touch with us. You can of course, find all four of us at the ITP expat.com. That's www.itpexpat.com
Kent 33:26 Or you can also find us at email at International Teacher podcast@gmail.com. We look forward to hearing from you. Or
JP 33:37 if you're into Facebook, we have a new Facebook group at www.facebook.com/groups/itp expat where you can find all kinds of inside information about ITP x bar.
Kent 33:55 You can also find us on Instagram at ITP expats that's with an S i t p x passes our handle. All
Greg Lemoine 34:04 right, and thank you listeners. We have over 100 countries represented by our listeners. And don't we're not monetized we are here for you. And we would like to thank all of you for listening. So let's get back to the show.
Kent 34:19 I say you were that person going to the airport helping new teachers come on board. That was one of the things that you did in that position. Yep. Was it a kind of a shot in the arm for you? Because, you know, sadly, after the years go by that initial excitement, we kind of forget that and and just sort of the everyday bits of life kind of give it a shot in the arm of enthusiasm when you get to work with those new teachers coming in.
Debbie 34:45 Let me tell you, I got to do that once because we we did that and then COVID came. That's right. And then the coup d'etat happened. So for us it was difficult so it was like an all line kind of thing afterwards. And we tried to do that, but it's completely different. So fortunately, I only got to do that. Once because I was still in the country after COVID, I decided not to go back home, I decided to spend the summer in Myanmar. And Asia was a completely different story, right when he came to borders and taking things very seriously, in Myanmar, when COVID hit, there were six ventilators in the whole country. So they knew that if COVID got there, everybody was going to be in serious trouble. So the government was really active, I feel so very thankful for, for the government of Myanmar for keeping me safe. You know, so because I had a job, I was working, I was working less hours, my salary was the same, I did not have to sacrifice anything for the sake of others, while other people were sacrificing, you know, their jobs. And in all of that, for me, you know, so I felt so thankful. And it was such a difficult feeling as well, to think like, wow, I am not losing anything. And yet, it feels like I'm making more money, because I don't have any place to spend money. And yet people are sacrificing everything that they have to so then the community safe, you know, so it was difficult. But I decided to stay over in the country. During that time. A lot of my colleagues, they had the opportunity to leave in the left, which was hard, was very hard. So like we were online, but some people were in the country, some people were not. If we left we thought initially, like I think everybody else that you would be able to come back but Myanmar closed the borders for quite a while. So like people who were out, then they wanted to come back in and they couldn't just because there were no visas available. There was nothing available. There were no flights available. Like because the country was walked. Yeah, so that was that was a different situation as well in life in Myanmar, what can I say? I am very thankful. People there are incredible. It's such an incredible people that we have there people are so humble people are so thankful. People are so honest, I know things are changing, because the situation is getting difficult their financial economically right. My students, I think they are the best of the best, like so respectful. Teachers are so respected in the society. They compare the teachers with Buddha. Like, it's, it's a whole different level of respect. You know, saying like In Turkey, there is this kind of status as well, when you say you're a teacher, people look at you differently. But in Myanmar, it was it was a high high respect level of respect. It's such a poor country. So you see people suffering, you see the needs and stuff like that. The simply list the simplicity of the people, the way they take life, they take the challenges, but it was so rewarding and living through the cool. That was very, very difficult. Because we just woke up one day, and I looked at my cell phone and I saw like on Santucci, the main leader of the country, she was arrested. And we were like, What is going on? You know, so it was just so sudden, so then we had a quick meeting, staff meeting like, Okay, what's going on? Like, there's a staff meeting, but I think everybody was in shock. Completely in shock, because so they said, like, we don't know what's going to happen, but maybe internet is going to be working is not going to be working. So you know, like maybe this but we're going to carry on the day, like as normal. And we were like, Oh, we were ready online because of COVID. But it was just so much. And I'm like, okay, when I'm going to call my family. So if I, if we won't have internet? How can I tell my family about what's going on? Can I have time to go to the grocery buy? provisions? Because I don't know what's going to happen. What am I supposed to expect? Like what are we don't know? Right? So it was it was a difficult, tense situation and how the situation evolved as well. Like, there was peaceful protests in the beginning and people were so nice, so kind, you know, people were protesting and they were giving water to the guards. For example, they said the guards haven't. They are just, they're here on their orders. It's not their fault.
Greg Lemoine 39:43 I know that a lot of schools in different hardship countries have political unrest, volatile countries, that the school is really that comfort zone for you. You don't really know who to talk to to get the real news. You don't want to know from your neighbor, maybe you don't know and people are going everywhere by at your school probably would have a big meeting, like you said, right away. Here's what's going on. Here's our plan. And here's what you do if you need help, I would hope that was the case for you. And in my case, in other countries, it was like that, like Venezuela we had, we have an evacuation plan. The school has explained all of that to us before it actually happened. And we were prepared. But I never lived through a coup, like you did twice, three times. Maybe. But do you agree with that statement? I mean, I'm not every school is going to like corral around their teachers. But I think a lot of schools do.
Debbie 40:34 I think our school was I mean, everybody was caught by surprise. Because it was not something that we were preparing, I think Venezuela because of the tension, the constant tension, you you are more prepared. But for us, there were like, like elections happened in the November before. And then that was happening February. So it was something that, to be honest, we weren't prepared. I don't think the school was prepared. And we had already suffered through COVID. With a financial situation there as well. The school did take care of us throughout all of that. And there were meetings happening constantly, like staff meetings, held by the director. So he tried to bring us together. But then it's also interesting, because we all process things differently. Absolutely. So for some of us, it's like, let's just carry on, like, we need to just think of normalcy school, cash should be something where it's something that is constant and normal.
JP 41:35 Well, because we're you're dealing with children, right? So you're you're constantly thinking about what are the kids feeling at this time, they've got COVID. Now they've got the coup. So you're, when you're dealing with children, that becomes your priority.
Greg Lemoine 41:49 So some teachers meltdown, though, right, and like you said, so people take it different ways. And the meltdown happens in and you've got to come together. So that's I was mentioning, everyone does feel differently, but you don't really know what to do in any situation, because you're sort of new there, or you're a visitor in that country, even if you've been living there for a while, but you need to go to somebody for help. And that's sort of like the organization that will help you. Wow, were you one of the ones that was very stable, and like here, we got to plow through and worry about the kids. So you can get this done.
Debbie 42:20 I have to say that that was my 20 year of teaching. And that was the most rewarding, but the most difficult year because I was in the country. Wow, most of the teachers were not in the country. So that was also different. Because we were living through the same thing in a way but differently, and we all kind of tried to help but differently, right? So I felt being in the country with the kids, because at some point, we wouldn't have internet at night. Right? Like from this time to this time, there was no internet. So it's just this constant, kind of like, you feel so tired thinking about worst case scenarios are preparing for something that might happen, or they may not happen. But people I think one thing that people don't understand is the tension that goes into your mind. Like, when you are old, they're saying that there may not have internet for two days. So you prepare for that. But like all the preparation that it takes, okay, so maybe I should buy more credit. Maybe I should make sure to buy a VPN, or maybe I should make, I should find a way to just make phone calls or, you know, like, all those kinds of like, this, this, this, this this. And then if it doesn't happen, people say, oh, yeah, but it didn't happen. But all the preparation that it took you, it makes you exhausted, because you don't know. And that's what happened to the kids as well. They said, I'm downloading a bunch of movies, because internet's gonna go down. Right? But at the same time, what
Greg Lemoine 43:54 about water? What about water and power? Did you have all that? I mean, I'm used to those kinds of things. Like when there's political problems, there's infrastructure goes down, not just internet, but I mean, like water and food and some things like that. What did that and gas did? Did those things happen to you in during that coup that?
Debbie 44:15 Not really it was more China that they could consult like Myanmar, the electricity is not great. Anyways. Like so we have seasons where the electricity goes down a lot due to infrastructure problems, but also what we had to deal with after a while was violence. It happened, like we heard gunshots. You know, people were protesting and then protests were not peaceful anymore. And like, people were so naive in a way that it hurt us because one of my colleagues she she received a phone call from one of the workers saying like, is it true that the Americans are coming tomorrow to kind of save us help us So that kind of level of oh my gosh, because they've we're feeling like we're doing peaceful protests like the world is seeing us. And when we think about that, it's like, oh, hard braking. So you see the peaceful protests, and then it evolves to something that is not as peaceful anymore. And then it evolved into like, social punishment kind of thing. So like, people were striking. But then with people striking, they also wanted to receive their monies, but their their payments, but then there was no work being done. So there was a lot of, like, society pressure, you shouldn't go to work. But then the whole country stops, which was the point but then it doesn't work. It was like, so we went out of cash. So suddenly, the school couldn't pay us the way that they were paying us anymore. And all of a sudden, I'm stuck there in the country. I'm in I need my money, because we Mr is very Money, money, society, like cash. We had bank accounts, but we were paid cash, or deposited abroad. So so we decided every month how how much money cash I wanted, I wanted dollars, or I want me in my chat, you know, and all of a sudden, there was no Myanmar chat, because people after the coup, people just went to the bank, and they wanted to withdraw their money. But there was no money available for everybody to withdraw. Right? So two banks collapsed. So there was no money. And then there was there were no dollars. So at one point, the school was struggling, and they said, like, listen, we cannot pay you your cash money this month. And we're like, what does that mean? Then? How? How are you going to do this? Then? Like, when can you pay? Or we don't know.
Greg Lemoine 46:45 So that was good. A lot of your students leave a lot of the families that were there at the school, did they leave during these harsh times? Or did most of them stay?
Debbie 46:55 Most of them? Okay, most of them stayed. So being with the kids, for me, it was very rewarding, because I'm like, guys, I know. It's tough. Like, because I'm going through that as well. You know, so it's like, and I'm here. I'm with you guys stable for this pressure as well. Yeah, although we were all different living it differently. In some neighborhoods, they they were hearing gunshots all the time. In my neighborhood. We heard it twice. You know, so like, so we were talking about that as well. So how are you? Are you guys safe? Are you? Did you hear anything? Did you hear protests, like at one point, people were protesting at 7pm People were protesting with pens and pots. Also, I had military kids in my classroom, and also non military kids in my classroom. You know, so, to me, as a teacher, thinking about the future of that country, I felt so proud because I'm like, I have the two of you here in my classroom, and you guys are together, society is falling apart, you guys are together, there is hope for this country. So to me, it was so rewarding. You know, so rewarding as a teacher thinking about I'm like, Guys, you will have no idea how proud I am. Like, you know, like, you guys have no idea. This is so beautiful to see. And I am so hopeful you will do something different. You know, because you guys are here right now, you know, and I'm so proud. Because there is hope, you know, so I felt that way with them. And it was hard for them. It was hard for it was hard for everybody. It was uncertainty. It it's It's difficult. It's very difficult.
Kent 48:37 Has the school managed to stay open the entire time since then.
Debbie 48:41 It did. It did. But I didn't I was planning on staying there over the summer. But I the school was also struggling financially and they had to let go. Six people at the end of the school year after the school was so I felt very, um, like, I don't feel very safe. You know, like when it was only the two to two teachers that were going to stay over the summer. It was the librarian me. But then they fired her. They they released her from her contract and five other people because of enrollment and all of that and all the situations. So I'm like, am I going to be here alone without with a cash problem with everything, and so we were buying cash in the black market. So we had to pay to have cash.
Kent 49:39 If I understand Debbie correctly. You finished off the school year. And then at the end of that year, you had the option to travel out of the country. But you your dedication to the school. You were planning on staying that summer despite the hardships that continued into the summer.
Debbie 49:59 It was still uncertain about the COVID visa and stuff, so I thought it's too much to go out because if I were gonna go out at that point COVID was still present. I would go to Brazil and like teach from Brazil. People were having a having a miserable time teaching from the US in Myanmar. Right. So I'm like, and I'm not a big fan of the city where my parents are right now in in Brazil, Salt Lake. I will hate it. So I'll stay here because here I have my own apartment. I have, you know, it's the same timezone. And I Yeah.
Kent 50:35 And additionally, when you get back to Brazil, your mom's gonna convince you to go back to Turkey. Turkey. You just had to prove her wrong about Turkey. Didn't you?
Debbie 50:48 Love Turkey. They
JP 50:52 they're like look at look at look at the ugly step redheaded stepchild now. So Debbie, I remember you I followed, followed your Facebook feed, like, like nobody's business during that whole time because of course, I was concerned for your safety and concern for you. And your school, your situation. And I remember that struggle. And then I remember you reached out to me that April. So I'm kind of fast forwarding. But just that April, you were my first client, and I can't tell you how much that meant to me reaching out and saying, Hey, I need help with my CV, because I think I'm gonna be going somewhere else.
Debbie 51:40 Yeah, that was that was that was great Jacqueline, that you were able to help me out with my CV and like, hints and tips that you gave me like, this is, this is something this is a heading that you can hear, you know, like, oh, okay, that's nice, you know. So that was super valuable to me, because I'm like, I knew I was gonna go. And then I had put my things already in search. I assess. But that was a difficult year, too. Because once I left Myanmar, I'm like, I'm not going to come back. I know. It's going to be my last school year. I've lived through a bit too much. And I I love it here. I love the students. But I'm tired.
Kent 52:23 Did you end up leaving that summer, then? Or did you stay that summer?
Debbie 52:27 I continued, like I left that summer. I left to Brazil. I kept my contract. But I said I cannot stay in Myanmar because I don't feel safe. So I left Myanmar. So I went back to Brazil. And I taught her whole pretty much that whole year from Brazil.
JP 52:48 Yeah, she was talking about keeping vampire hours. She's like, I don't see the sun. Because she's working through the night.
Kent 52:55 So what were your hours from Brazil working then
Debbie 52:59 10pm to 5am. It was awful. I hated everything. Second of it. It was difficult. And so when I left Myanmar, I sold pretty much all the things that I wanted, I gave away things. I kept few basics things in my apartment, thinking like if I, if I happen to come back here to wrap the Europe, then at least I have a house to go back to are the basics, and I can come back. But I knew I was not going to renew my contract with with the school.
Kent 53:35 So let me ask JP, were you like, Did you follow Debbie's progress over the course of that next year? And you guys were in contact, kind of maybe talking about her next steps? What do you remember about this period?
JP 53:47 Well, just remember, yes, I started in April. So she reached out to me in April for that fall. Like she was looking for a job that fall and I was at all key. And I just buckled down and put all my focus on Debbie trying to find. I mean, first of all, a Spanish position in the world is like maybe one or two positions in every school that offers Spanish. But then what are the chances those people are leaving? And what are the chances they're leaving in April or announcing it and if I mean, it was just an very uphill climb, but I was very hopeful. And I knew Debbie was the candidate to try and find a job for because of her experience, her education, her background. Everything was lined up for her. So we just needed to find that opening. And as it turned out, I had nothing to do with it. Debbie found the opening.
Kent 54:42 What How did you find this? This is the one the opening that led you to your your current assignment. Is that right? Tell us a little robot. Yeah. Tell us about that, Debbie.
Debbie 54:51 So So yeah, I knew that I was leaving that year. So I think I started updating my CVS and stuff like You can October talking to search and stuff or so I started looking probably October, December more or less trying to get my reference reference letters, that will stuff as well. So you have to prepare in advance, right? So you have to, because you need your your directors to write a letter or your principles to read a letter. So you have to depend on a lot of people in order to get the process going. And it was it was getting, I got a few interviews and stuff but nothing lined up. So when Jacqueline posted something about you know, what her new business and like, what she was helping people with, I'm like, you know, like that would be a great idea for Jacqueline just takes a look in my CV or are my like, I hate doing those kinds of like letters of like, Oh, I'm terrible with that. I don't know if I'm writing it properly. I don't know if that is you know, like, I'm not really sure how to do it. So it was great talking to Jacqueline back then. And I'm like, you know, I think that will be a great help. You know, you can take a look because you're my boss. You were used to seeing that as well. Like what is appealing? Like what is it that is? Because to me, it's like me, right? But what is it that is something that stands out or what doesn't or like what is your eye? So I think that would be that was a great help for me to put things together
JP 56:27 and Abuja did Abuja reach out to you or did you find them?
Debbie 56:31 It was interesting because this position was open since October. So it was early on in October. I tried to reach out to them. I had one of my friend one of my releases friend. She works here. So they work together in Oman. So and then I met this friend in Myanmar. She worked in Myanmar. So we met there. Tatiana, that's Tatiana. Yes.
JP 56:57 So I replaced Tatyana at the American School in Muscat. Oh, yeah, I was like, wait, I think I know who you're talking about. Because I went to the American School in Muscat to replace Tatiana and Tatiana moved on to somewhere else but not Abuja. Yet. She was. Maybe, maybe, and then she moved to Abuja, and you learn she was there. Like, this is the seventh connections of Kevin Duncan, for sure. Where everybody knows everybody, and yet we're talking about the world.
Debbie 57:30 Yeah, yeah. So she and then so I reached out to her I think and I said that Tina, I see that there's a Spanish opening euroschool How is it nice also had one friend that worked with me in Myanmar's who was here. And I don't know if back then I reached out to her to ask. So they mentioned a few things. Yay. It's you know, it's okay. It's fine, though. But nothing happened back then. Nothing happened. I couldn't even get an interview with them. Nothing, nothing happened. So I'm like, Okay, fine. You know, again, Nigeria wasn't my first on my list. So time went by, and I was just kind of getting discouraged. I'm like, you know, it's the end of the school year. I mean, it's April already, or, you know, like, Okay, so maybe let me change my plans. Maybe instead of me trying to get a job. Let me just go back to Myanmar. If they open their borders, I'll just go to Myanmar. I'll end the year there, at least, I will be able to say my goodbyes in there. I can sleep at night and work during the day. You know, like, I'll just go there and wrap my year there. So I did that. And right before I left, Tatiana just reached out to me, to me, Mr. And she's like, Hey, Debbie, are you so interested in working here in Nigeria? And I'm like, yeah, like, especially at this point. I'm like, what, why not? And she's like, okay, the position is going to be posted on search soon. So keep an eye on that. Apply for it. I'm like, Okay. And then later on, she reached out to me, she said, my directors telling you to send your CV straight to him. Okay, I can do that. And then I had an interview before I think I think I was in Brazil. No, we were trying to schedule a time to interview. And that happened. Once I was already in Myanmar. I had an interview with with the director here. And then I had a second interview with him, and I got an offer. So
JP 59:35 Debbie was my first client and then she was the first one to land a job. She was
Kent 59:40 the first success story for JP consulting.
JP 59:43 I was walking around on cloud nine thinking, I don't know what kind of help I had and, or what kind of hand I had and you know, getting her into Abuja, but I was so ecstatic and it really did like snowballed from there that I'd be I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciated your confidence in me. And then that, you know, you shared your celebration with me with for whatever little part I had in it and I was just on cloud nine.
Debbie 1:00:13 It was it was a really good to help it was a really good support Have you like true for me as well asking me about places or thinking? No, this is good for you like, you know, because it was such a discouraging time for me to and like, oh, okay, okay. So if they weren't
just throwing my
Greg Lemoine 1:00:39 I was gonna say, Debbie, it shows me that what you're one of the teachers has been around in the field quite a long time in different countries. And one of those stories that for some of us that have been out for a while, it's more about who you know. And it's not as much about the recruiting fairs. Those are just sort of like, well, I could go to one, but it's more like, you know, I'm getting neuro from more people. Jacqueline is a great example, too. It's like who you know, and who does Jacqueline know. And your world gets smaller and smaller and smaller. And pretty soon, they have people calling you saying, don't even go to the fair yet. Just let's interview now. And let's start it. That's true.
Kent 1:01:19 I got two questions. Some, my first question is, did you ever make it over to Japan? Or did the pandemic ruin your opportunity to kind of connect a little bit with your roots?
Debbie 1:01:31 Yeah, unfortunately, I never made it. I never, I never had the chance to go also. Because if I think about it, because I was in Myanmar for five years. So I think two of those years were normal. And then things started going like two of the years were one of the year was COVID. The other one was a coup, and the other one was me back in Brazil and ending the year in Myanmar. So it was pretty much two years, I have to say that a lot of the times that I had the chance to travel, I went back to Turkey.
Kent 1:02:06 Yeah, that's right. Reconnect with
Debbie 1:02:08 with friends, you know, like that was a place where I felt like, Okay, I want to go back there. Okay, my first holiday was October, and I'm like, I'm gonna go to Turkey, Turkey, you know. So that's kind of like I didn't travel much around Southeast Asia, either. I did not get the chance to go to bed. My
Kent 1:02:27 second question, Debbie is, you know, you have this temperament, which any one of these kinds of challenges in international teaching could just anyone could just say, I've had enough and I'm done with this. You have not only pushed through every one of your challenges, but here you are today, having a great time. You're super positive. You're super fun. Have you always been that way? I mean, when you look back, when you were like young Debbie, you know Little Debbie, do you do? Would you surprise yourself knowing what you know now?
Debbie 1:03:03 Well, let me just say that I'm still Yes, she's still young
Greg Lemoine 1:03:05 Debbie can do that. Debbie, on behalf of the International Teacher Podcast, we would like to apologize for kids
Kent 1:03:17 to apology letters now one for Greg and one for me. Thank you so much.
JP 1:03:23 Please don't sue
Kent 1:03:26 you know, to be fair, I did catch myself halfway through they
Greg Lemoine 1:03:29 tried to dig out the hole and it didn't work.
Kent 1:03:31 I tried to but it was already
Debbie 1:03:36 no getting back to your question. I think it's I always had the because my family is also my parents are very international. They met in Japan. My dad is Peruvian. My mom's Brazilian, you know, so like, my family is spread around the world. One of my uncle his he's in Costa Rica, you know, the other one is still in Japan. So it's like kind of, so I always my parents always encouraged me to go abroad, there's so much to see, you know, like, learning English. You know, like, when I was nine I started going to, to school to learn English because we didn't have English at school. But so we had private classes. So my mom always had this idea of like, international, you have to learn English you have to learn English, you know, because you go abroad that's the language that is spoken stuff like that. I I think I've accomplished much more than I thought I would I always wanted to be abroad in pure Yeah. Like in a lot of continents even like you know, so I am really proud to be able to experience the world that way and to experience the world as a teacher that wait like so it is nice. You're saying that I'm positive I do I think I am. But but there are times where things are difficult. As I was thinking, for example, while COVID was what was terrible for everybody all over no matter what, but I'm thinking as well, after I went back to Brazil for that year, I started doing therapy. And that has, and I'm still doing therapy, and I'm loving it every, every sec, because I feel like it's so many losses that you have to process COVID I lost. Every every week, our family was leaving Myanmar, because Myanmar had no structure to what if people got sick, no one knew. So people left, like people from my school community, people from my church left because it was most expats people. So I lost a lot. I felt like I lost a lot of people after the coup, forget it, I was pretty much everybody left, you know. So I felt like so many losses to process and that is difficult. In an international world. Normally, you already lose a lot of people every year anyways, because people are moving on new people are coming. But it is a constant coming, stay a little bit going and then soon you leave as well. And you start over. And as I was thinking these days about friendships and communities and stuff, I thought in Myanmar, it took me about three years to start feeling like, okay, you know, I have my communities, I know who I am in those communities. I know why ro in those communities, you know, so it takes time, right? It takes commitment.
JP 1:06:31 So now to talk about Nigeria, and the fact that when you got to Nigeria, and there were struggles, and there were issues, where did you go back to? So tell us tell us because this is very poignant about where you made your new community you felt at home in Myanmar. So yeah, tell us about that. That'd be
Debbie 1:06:53 Yeah, it was interesting, because I was coming from a very stressful year. Stressful years like of COVID Could the top going back to Brazil, living in Brazil, hating it and going back to Myanmar. And then I came to Nigeria, which is not an easy country, like security is our concern of like, it's a it's a main thing here. The school keep us safe. Like we have armed guards in the school like 12 armed guards in the school. Sometimes when we go out for shopping for grocery shopping. There's a car that goes behind us with armed guards. Like it's just a very interesting, different situation, right? So I get here, we start the school year, and we started the school year online because of security. Because Boko Haram was in town because I mean Abuja Abuja seems to be more like, relaxed. But in Boko Haram is not based here, but they were here. Some of them were arrested, and some of them plan the escape from Greece or something like that. So they were around for a while. So the school was concerned. And because we were very linked with the, the American Embassy, so they gave us advice on security issues as well. So we decided to start the school year online for the first couple of weeks. So that was interesting, because I'm coming from a tense situation in Myanmar. I'm coming here. And we're starting the year online. So I'm like, okay, but it wasn't an easy start. So I'm like, okay, that's fine, you know. And then so we go for the our October break, we come back after a week, we start hearing their distinction. And the director calls us in and says, Okay, so we're gonna be doing school online for a little bit because there's a little bit of attention here in the city and stuff. And then we start hearing that the American diplomats or their families are departing there, they have the option to depart the country and we're like, what is going on? Again, you know, and then all of a sudden, we hear like, it's an order departure. It's no longer you know, an option but the families have to leave Abuja, the rector causes in, in the meeting, like says, Okay, guys, here's what's happening. You know, there are some security issues and because it's the American Embassy, so sometimes you don't know exactly what's going on. So we have to rely on their information or you know, it has
JP 1:09:37 the expertise right. Yeah.
Debbie 1:09:40 So the director said the Americans as you might have heard the American diplomats are being you know, ordered on departure. It's a in therefore I am requesting that you guys also leave the country because we want to keep you guys safe. We, you know, there is a concern And we want to make sure that everybody's safe. So you have, you know, tomorrow and the day after we have classes. And so yeah, everybody was shocked. I was like, wow. And then they said, Okay, again. I know, like, so when do we, how long do we have? When do we have to go? Like he said, three or four days? And we're like, oh, in three or four days. I mean, for me, I was I had just ever like, I got
Greg Lemoine 1:10:31 this. I got this. I've been through this kind of stuff before. I'm fine. Hey, anybody needs a T shirts? I need some time stability for you. Yeah, I've been through cruise before you need some help. I can arrange it. I'm sorry. To make light of it. We have to be a little fun. But boy, what a situation? I mean, you're just surprised like three or four days I have to be what out? What do I do next? Exactly. People
Debbie 1:10:53 were like before how long? Because depending on how long then you can make plans to go somewhere, you know, like, if it's a few weeks, then you can just go back to your country, see people and then come back. But then if it's like two months, or and then elections were coming in April as well. And we're like, or maybe we're not going to come back into April because there's going to be tension because of elections or so there were a lot of things that were We were wondering, and they said minimum amount, we're not going to take you guys out of the country just for, you know, two weeks and call you guys back?
JP 1:11:27 Well, that was very fair to think that, you know, because you could be going to say like a holiday destination. You know, you you hopefully people didn't think of this or didn't plan this. But you could end up going in a holiday situation saying oh, you know what, it's going to be a week or two weeks, I'll go to the Maldives. And then all of a sudden, you're there for six months and your bank accounts empty because because you don't you can't afford to stay. So I'm really happy to hear that the director had some foresight to say it's going to be a minimum of a month, so that people would plan accordingly.
Debbie 1:12:01 And also they gave us like a stipend as well to help us out because that was unexpected. And it's a lot of incurs a lot of expenses as well. So yes, because of that I went I ended up going back to Myanmar. I was in a relationship back then. So I'm like, perfect opportunity.
Greg Lemoine 1:12:19 I know you're gonna shake Turkey. I really thought you were gonna shake.
Debbie 1:12:25 I would I would go to Turkey if I wasn't in that relationship. So if I would have gone to a turkey but I went to me and my when I got there people were just like, okay, okay, no, no, let's, let's see, if we understood it right. You left me Mr. Because of the situation
Unknown Speaker 1:12:49 they were like, This is brilliant.
Greg Lemoine 1:12:52 Really, you can't make this stuff up. I mean, this is you need to write a book, I'm telling you.
JP 1:12:56 This is gold right here. This is the gold level of guests that are on my tops, because the stories I mean, Debbie it is it has been an incredible journey. And, and then full circle, folks. I mean, not to again, fast forward but full circle. This year, I had a client who was considering a Bucha. And I said, Well, you know what, let me reach out to my good friend Debbie and see if she'll handle some of your questions. And so I asked Debbie, if I could pass on her contact info and then they started chatting and now I'm so excited to see Jessica and Debbie in their each other's Instagrams because Jessica went she ended up getting to Abuja Oh, that's fantastic.
Kent 1:13:48 connections. And here we are a year later from the events of last year and how, how was the situation? Ben?
Debbie 1:13:56 It's been almost weird because it's been normal. I get to have
Unknown Speaker 1:14:02 you're not sure what to do. Things are normal and quiet and calm.
Greg Lemoine 1:14:05 And within the regular daylight hours.
Debbie 1:14:12 What is it? But one thing that I've been asking people like so what are you planning for evacuation this year? So we were like, no, no.
JP 1:14:21 You started the year you weren't online. You weren't evacuated? I mean, here we are in October and knock on wood. Knock on wood.
Greg Lemoine 1:14:29 My life feels so boring right now. I don't I mean, listening to your stories. I feel like my stories are like boring man. What about you KENT boredom? Yes,
Kent 1:14:39 I feel like your stories.
Greg Lemoine 1:14:44 Walk right into that one. Yes.
Kent 1:14:48 I like your story is Greg. Let's I did want to say so. Oh,
Greg Lemoine 1:14:54 let me put record on and we'll start the show. Oh,
Kent 1:14:58 you know what this was? This was the practice I'm
Greg Lemoine 1:15:01 gonna hit record and then we'll go back through the story
Kent 1:15:07 I love that. So oh yeah tell our listeners, Debbie. Just a few words about Abuja is Abuja, the the capital of Nigeria. Yes,
Debbie 1:15:17 Abuja is the capital of Nigeria. But Lagos is the main city where things happen Abuja they say that it's a lot more laid back, also less dangerous. They say so like the crazy things, you know, it's in Lagos. So Lagos is the city where you have everything, everything good and everything bad. All the traffic is also
JP 1:15:41 huge, like 15 million people or something. And yeah, I
Debbie 1:15:45 heard there's quite a few. I don't know if it's 30 million I heard today but I'm not I'm not sure.
Kent 1:15:51 The population of Abuja, then I think it's about 8 million. And your students is the oil industry active in Abuja,
Debbie 1:16:00 here in Abuja, we are more like, the political capital.
Kent 1:16:05 Yes, the diplomatic and political capital. So your students are the sons and daughters of diplomats and foreign workers in the capital. Okay. All locations. So
Debbie 1:16:15 we have a lot of those like, oh, yeah, my dad is in Paulo, symbolic. One of our students. He's dead. Ran for presidency this the past year this year. So that was interesting. Nigeria. Yeah. Yeah. Ooh, cool. Yeah. Really? I didn't know until he was like, Can I Can I just see the results? I'm like, I don't Well, do you have class right now? Like, Oh, okay. Oh, okay. I understood it. Oh, interesting.
Greg Lemoine 1:16:47 All right, Google. Thank you. Abuja is 4 million.
JP 1:16:50 So yeah, I what I enjoyed about hearing you were applying and then and then getting into Abuja, the international school there was that you are going to have that experience that I think is one of those true, but very rare international teaching experiences where your class is like a Model UN, where you have nationalities from all over the world. And there you are, you're teaching in the common language, usually in English, of course, in you in your case, you'd be teaching them in Spanish, but they're, they're a mix of colors and races and religions, and they're all coming together in that one school.
Debbie 1:17:33 It is this is the most international school that I have taught because in Turkey most of the most I know I think, well 100% of my students were Turks in Myanmar. We had a few international students, but most of my students were Myanmar students. Here it is like, just like you mentioned directly and it's students from all over the world. So Israel Palestinian, I have one from Poland. I have German students. I have Korean students. It's just like so much.
JP 1:18:04 Do you have any Brazilian students?
Debbie 1:18:06 There is a half Brazilian student, but he's not my students. He's taking French
Greg Lemoine 1:18:11 left or right hand, half left, right.
Kent 1:18:16 Top half bottom half?
Greg Lemoine 1:18:18 Is your staff also that kind
Debbie 1:18:19 of international, most of our teachers are Americans. We have a few Australians. We have the Romanian teacher who is Tatiana, who teaches French and Spanish. Hi, Tatiana.
Greg Lemoine 1:18:32 You speak Canadian, Debbie? I'm still learning.
Debbie 1:18:35 I don't. But I understand it. I understand.
Greg Lemoine 1:18:39 I'm still learning. For years.
Kent 1:18:41 We don't know. What's on your bucket list. Debbie, what's what do you kind of things you think about for your future? Oh,
Debbie 1:18:50 good question. I, for now, I think my short term future because this is my my fall break. And I'm so happy just to be here. I'm doing a course right now like that the school requires me to have an American, an American teachers license. So I'm doing unique courses, to get the credits and also then to apply for the American teachers license. So it's funny. Because in all my other schools, they never asked for that. So I was kind of like angry in the beginning. But now I'm like, You know what, it's been the money they're paying for it. I'm loving it, though. You know, like talking to other people and doing homework together and complaining about things you know, so I'm going to be pursuing that for the coming future for the near future. Family is always there. I would love to bring my parents here to just see Abuja you know, they'd like to before before COVID They would go to wherever it was and they would stay with me for like a month. So you know, just to experience like my parents, they don't care about going out. So fun. Thank
Kent 1:20:02 you. I will say this I will say that the two of you, JP men and Debbie, I think you represent the best part of international teaching. You guys met on the job teaching internationally. You've supported each other through the years. And here we are. I don't know how many years later, but it's still talking like you guys almost talk every day and it's just it's been lovely. He's me, Ken. This is what I love about
Greg Lemoine 1:20:25 me. I can't wait. I'll just sit back and listen to you compliment the other the other two. Okay, that's fine. I understand. They're much better looking than I am. I understand that.
Kent 1:20:41 You know what, Greg and I eat pizza together every day over the summer. He lives next door. His classroom was 100 yards away from mine. I can hear him when he sneezes
Greg Lemoine 1:20:50 Have you ever met such a positive person? I mean, Debbie is the Mojo Jacqueline. I'm so glad that you know her. Yeah,
Kent 1:20:57 Jacqueline, thank you for bringing all yes. Great how's it and I'm gonna tell the ITP crowd that the new lineup will be Jacqueline cat the cat guy and Debbie will be hosting the ITP from now on am I get kicked out I want to thank you for your service. You've done a great job. So they like you more Debbie. Bye
Greg Lemoine 1:21:19 bye guys. Thank you for answering all my future to record we'll end in two seconds to I got control the recording here. Can I ask you two questions or can we ask you two questions Debbie? That are really throat ITP on the International Teacher Podcast. What am I favorite is to say of all the places that you go. Can you name two or three things that three things? Excuse me? That's my director again. Debbie. She's She's Jacqueline's like Greg it's three it's three always three
Unknown Speaker 1:22:01 she's someone yeah three fingers now but she's about
Greg Lemoine 1:22:08 okay, Debbie, as you go from country to country, which you do pretty easily. Are there three things that you take with you to make you will feel more comfortable? Yes,
Debbie 1:22:17 I think the apartment the place where I live is very important for me if that's not set for me my whole life is unsettled. That's how I feel especially after COVID With my apartments Okay, whatever happens outside it's okay because this is my home. This is my base. This is where I feel comfortable and yes, just like directly like after living in Turkey I also have my carpet here. This is my bunny.
Greg Lemoine 1:22:46 Rabbit bunny. It's a real rabbit. It's not a stuffed animal. That's a rabbit in the middle of your that's a rabbit in the middle of your carpet.
Debbie 1:22:57 destroying my carpets Her name is blossom but I call her bunny Xia which is bunny in English in Xenia, which makes like little bunny in Portuguese. So it's the combination of the two,
Greg Lemoine 1:23:09 I think you should call her coup coup d'etat. I'm sorry, my laughing Am I making light of that again, I can't help but you're just amazing to have lived through so many problems. Okay. Okay. And what's your third one? Do you have a third one,
Debbie 1:23:23 I have little things that I like to collect. So that's my shelf right there. So little things from all different countries. And even one of them when I left the US like how Wow, ago, one of my friends she gave me something from Colombia because she was committed. Like, I want you to take this with you, which has lots of little things typical from Colombia. Like she wrote a little note for me. On the bottom of the thing, I always take pictures of it and show it to her like now this is in Myanmar. Now. This is now this is in Nigeria, though this is in Turkey, you know, so that in my magnets, magnets. When
Greg Lemoine 1:24:02 I left the United States, I took my dad's garage door opener by accident. My dad after I moved to Honduras. My dad's like, Frank, do you have my garage door opener? And I'm like, No, Dad, I don't know what you're talking about. Right? From then on. Everywhere I went, every country I went to I always had a picture of me with the garage door opener somewhere in the picture. I mean, all over the world. And my mom said, Greg, your father never sees it. I always have to point it. He never notices it, Greg, and I'm like, every year I'm like, No, I don't know where it is. I'd go home for the summer. I'd be like, you have a garage door open and he'd be like, No, you can't have one. You still have my I'm like no, I don't. So finally, I think it was about about six years ago Father's Day, I gave him a book that had all of the pictures and the countries that that had been to even underwater, but that was I forgot that was one thing I've always taken with me. I just found it in a box actually. So that's what made me think of that.
Speaker 3 1:24:58 Other people have Flat Stanleys
Greg Lemoine 1:25:00 Oh, yes, or the Gnomes
I have a garage opener from dad. Yes, I do. He knows about it now. So it's not as much fun. But I think I'm going to publish a nice book just for him about that. Thank you for playing the game, Debbie. And that's one of the ITP questions.
Kent 1:25:14 Miss Debbie, do you have a run in with the authorities, the police, customs agents, any stories from around the world where you just ran into authority? Yeah, for
Debbie 1:25:29 In Nigeria. Those kinds of customs stories are a regular thing. It was interesting because coming into the country for the first time being a Brazilian so we are suspicious. We were scared or you know, like, because we never know me. You know, we know our people. I got here and then the score arranged a guy to come and pick pick up my luggage for me and helped me out outside. I'm like, That's awesome, right? So he came and he helped me with myself suitcases. And when we're going out. And here in Nigeria, you have to take all your suitcases and run it through the X ray machine. So it runs through the X ray. And then there are a bunch of people standing by the door when you're about to leave. And they say what do you have in your suitcase? My Stuff like clothes. And do you have any food in there? Do you have any food in there? I'm like, Well, I brought some beings and coffee. What else? What else? I'm like, being a Brazilian beans and coffee should be. That's it. So they were not happy. But they were like, okay, okay, just give us some money here.
Greg Lemoine 1:26:42 Wow. Right off the bat, right off
Kent 1:26:47 the bat. They didn't even bother to take a hint at it or anything. They just said, Give us the money. Give
Debbie 1:26:52 us some money. They have my passport. They're all uniform, man, you know, like, a bunch of them. And I looked at the guy carrying my suitcase. He says nothing. So I'm like, okay, so that has should be normal. I'm like, I'll have to give them some money. Because with a Brazilian mind, I think they are afraid they can do whatever they say I only had like, hundreds of like, $100 bill. And I gave them 100. And they were like, God bless you. God bless you. And I'm like, yeah, he better bless me and not you
Kent 1:27:30 Like " you just mugged me.
Debbie 1:27:41 But then I started asking people because I was so annoyed. And then whenever we go through customs, they always say like, Oh, give us some lunch money or all give us this. Oh, your Oh, my Brazilian sister. You know, give me so I asked started asking people. What do you guys say? One of my friends. She was like, oh, sometimes I say God bless you. Anyone that works?
Greg Lemoine 1:28:05 Let's try it. Debbie, can I have some money? You learned?
Kent 1:28:12 So did you only have to pay them once then and then not since then.
Debbie 1:28:16 I did not pay afterwards. There was one time that they say like give me all my Brazilian sister give me lunch money. And I said no. And he said why? I said no. And he gave my passport back and I they take the no so it takes time for you to understand it. But they do take the No. Yeah, so it's like, okay,
JP 1:28:38 I would have said you know, I gave your brother $100 3 months ago
Kent 1:28:45 like get the money from that guy.
Greg Lemoine 1:28:48 Wait till kid asked me for money tomorrow, like at school or something he's gonna ask me for somebody's gonna be like, God bless you can't? That's perfect. I love it.
Kent 1:28:58 Oh, man, you know, it'd be nice if the guy who had your bag gave you a little tip off when you walk with him. I just saved you 100 bucks.
Debbie 1:29:06 Just 100 bucks. Yeah, like, just arriving into the country when he probably got
Kent 1:29:17 Oh, man, that's great. How much fun is this been? I've had a fantastic time. I
JP 1:29:23 just want to say how much I've loved hearing all your stories. Debbie. This has been a blast from the past. But also Now Greg can't we've got to figure out where Debbie can go next that there's going to be a coup so what's what's on the horizon ever wherever
Kent 1:29:40 she goes? Let's just be honest, they follow her.
Debbie 1:29:45 You still come to Mexico? Like we made it through no cool but that was a coup in Niger, right
Greg Lemoine 1:29:51 she's still gonna be positive anyway. She's gonna have a positive attitude no matter where she goes. Debbie, do
JP 1:29:56 you have any last last second words for Are anybody in say in Brazil thinking about doing what you did?
**** Sorry, the final part of the transcript was cut off. We reached out over our time limit. Basically, Debbie says, and we are paraphrasing here, "Just do it. International teaching is full of ups and downs, but so worth it.!!!"
Thank you Debbie for being our first interview transcript. Once again, we apologize for the quality of this first transcript. We will be working out the kinks.