ITP - 97: Wisdom from Experiences Overseas

Welcome to the International Teacher Podcast with your host Matt the Family Guy, Kent the Cat Guy, Jacqueline from JP Mint, and Greg the Single Guy bringing you episodes from around the world about the best kept secret in education.

International teaching.

Welcome to the show.

Jacqueline: Welcome to the International Teacher Podcast. I’m Jacqueline from JP Mint, and I’m joined by Greg, the Single Guy.

Greg: Hello.

Jacqueline: Hey Greg, how are you?

Greg: Hey JP.

Jacqueline: We have Jeff from the United States, calling us all the way from Brazil. Hi Jeff.

Jeff: Good morning.

Jacqueline: Good morning. How’s everyone today?

Jeff: I’m great. I’ve got my coffee, as you can tell, because my energy level is through the roof. Normally I’m recording this at night, so I’m very low energy. But it’s morning, Greg. We’re on this side of the pond today.

Greg: Yeah, Kent is not here this evening for us because he is working on his grades and stuff towards the end of the year here. If he happens along, of course, we’ll have open arms for him to join us, and we’re hoping for that. But that’s the reason he’s not with us tonight.

Jacqueline: Yeah, it’s that time of year. Jeff, did you get your comments and grades in yet?

Jeff: We have comments due in a couple of weeks, and I had to change some grades yesterday for our seniors. So yeah, normal time of the year, right? That’s what we do.

Jacqueline: Full disclosure, Greg, Jeff and I know each other. We’ve known each other since around 2014. I think we met at the PTC—the Principal Training Center—in London. They also have one in Miami. Jeff and I took the same course.

Jeff: Yeah, I think we were at the same table a couple of times. And I think we were there twice together.

Jacqueline: Yeah, Stewart from Switzerland and Andrew from Norway. The four of us would go out for beers afterwards and hang out. Jeff and I have stayed in contact all this time. I’ve eagerly followed his career, and when he moved to Brazil, I was so happy for him because we’re going to hear he’s a long-term veteran international teacher, just like us.

So Jeff, can you tell us a little bit about how you got into teaching?

Jeff: Oh yeah, sure. When I was in university the first time, I was studying to be an elementary teacher. But then I ended up dropping out of college, mostly because of boredom and financial issues, and joined the Air Force. I went to Japan.

In Japan, I was in a small town in northern Japan. I met a couple of teachers just walking down the street who were at the American school there. That kind of laid the groundwork for the idea. I didn’t really know you could teach overseas.

When I got out of the Air Force, I went back to college. After graduating, I went to Japan to teach English. I was on the Japan Exchange and Teaching Program for three years. That’s where I got started.

Since then, I always wanted to remain overseas, but there were rules, so I had to teach in the States for a couple of years. In 2001, I moved to Beijing, and it’s been nonstop since then.

Jacqueline: I just want to find out where you’re from because, Greg, can you detect a little bit of a southern accent?

Greg: Not really.

Jacqueline: Where are you from, Jeff?

Jeff: I’m from Tennessee.

Jacqueline: Well, Tennessee is South.

Jeff: When you mention a Southern accent, it’ll come out.

Jacqueline: What’s the plural of “y’all”?

Jeff: Ewens. Ewens is the plural.

Jacqueline: I heard in Texas they say “all y’alls.”

Jeff: Sometimes, but Texans are weird. They don’t always claim to be Southern.

Jacqueline: Tennessee—Smoky Mountains?

Jeff: Yeah, I’m literally from the Smoky Mountain area.

Jacqueline: Memphis too—that’s Graceland. Have you been?

Jeff: I’ve been across the street from Graceland. There’s a Kentucky Fried Chicken across the street, so I had chicken there one night when I was driving to Texas. That’s as close as I got.

Jacqueline: Isn’t it true we never go visit things where we’re from?

Greg: Not unless somebody visits you. Then you take them around and see it through someone else’s eyes.

Jeff: There’s also a KFC at the foot of the Great Wall of China. They’re really smart about placement. I think there’s one near the pyramids in Egypt too. One of the best views of the pyramids is from a KFC.

Jacqueline: The International Teacher Podcast is unofficially brought to you by KFC.

Greg: When I was in Japan, I ended up eating at KFC because I couldn’t find anything else. I didn’t speak or read Japanese and kept walking into random places—dentist offices, hair salons—because there were no clear signs.

Jacqueline: I lived in Korea for three years.

Greg: I was in Busan.

Jacqueline: I was in Seoul for two years and then worked in a hagwon. I got my job from a newspaper in Seattle in 1997 and went to Daegu for two years.

Greg: Jeff, I want to go back a bit. Let’s talk about your international teaching career. You mentioned that you started in China. Can you go a little more in depth into that?

Jeff: Sure. I did five years of ESL in Japan and Korea, and then I was teaching in the States while doing my master’s in Tennessee. I ended up in Boston teaching in the public schools for a year. It was such a bad experience that I used my planning periods to look for jobs overseas.

Jeff: I initially looked for ESL jobs again because I didn’t think I could get into international schools. I had tried ISS before and didn’t get accepted. They told me ESL wasn’t considered real teaching experience, which was frustrating.

Eventually, I found a job online for a history and English position in Beijing at a small school called the New School of Collaborative Learning. I did a series of interviews remotely and ended up getting the job.

I spent two years there. It was a very small school—about 80 students, K–12. It was a great place to get started.

Unfortunately, there was an Ebola scare at one point, and we lost about 75 percent of the students. The school ended up closing a couple of years after I left.

After that, I went back into the recruitment circuit. I used agencies like Search and ISS again and attended a fair in Kuala Lumpur around 2002.

I didn’t get a job at that fair, but I was invited to the London IB fair afterward.

Jacqueline: Did you have IB experience to get into that fair?

Jeff: No, I didn’t, which surprised me. But I went anyway and interviewed with a few schools. One of them was the American International School in Kuwait.

Greg: And IB is one of those things that’s hard to break into without experience.

Jeff: Exactly. But AIS Kuwait was willing to train. They were starting the Middle Years Programme when I arrived.

I taught that for a couple of years, and then I moved into Theory of Knowledge and IB Philosophy. They sent me to IB training in the summer, which really helped my career.

Jacqueline: What was your degree in again?

Jeff: My bachelor’s is in history, and I have a master’s in curriculum and instruction.

Jacqueline: That makes sense why you were in those roles. Some countries require your degree to match your subject.

Jeff: Kuwait was interesting because they hired people from a range of backgrounds and then supported them with professional development. They even had connections with programs like the College of New Jersey.

From a professional development perspective, it was one of the best places I’ve worked.

Greg: Yeah, some schools bring in professors and run intensive master’s courses onsite.

Jeff: Exactly. They would bring someone in for about ten days, and you’d complete a full course in the evenings.

Jacqueline: There’s not a whole lot to do in Kuwait sometimes, so that helps.

Jeff: I actually enjoyed it. I lived in Salmiya near the Gulf, and I would walk along the water almost every evening. It kind of changed my perspective on things.

Greg: How long were you there?

Jeff: Six years.

Jacqueline: That’s a long stretch.

Jeff: Yeah, I had colleagues who had been there since the 90s, even the 80s.

Jacqueline: And then from Kuwait, you went to Shanghai?

Jeff: Yeah. One summer I stayed in Kuwait—it was extremely hot, around 55 degrees Celsius. I ended up spending a lot of time with the librarian, and we became good friends.

He later became an assistant principal in Shanghai and reached out to me about a job opening for history and economics. He asked if I could teach economics.

And like you do in international teaching, I said yes—even though I had never taught it before.

Jeff: I had studied a bit of economics before for exams, but I had never actually taught it. So I had to learn it as I went.

It was tough in the beginning. I had to stay ahead of the students, read a lot, and prepare constantly. But I had really supportive colleagues who shared resources and helped me figure things out.

Greg: That’s pretty common in international teaching.

Jeff: Yeah, you say yes and then you figure it out. That’s kind of how it works sometimes.

Greg: And how long were you in Shanghai?

Jeff: Five years.

Greg: What was that experience like?

Jeff: It was great. Shanghai is an incredible city. There’s always something going on, and the international community is really strong.

I was teaching economics, Theory of Knowledge, and a few other classes. At one point, they asked me to teach psychology, and again, I said yes.

Jacqueline: That’s impressive.

Jeff: It keeps things interesting. You’re always learning something new.

Greg: But there must be limits, right?

Jeff: Yeah, there are certain things I would say no to now. For example, elementary school. I did that early on and realized it’s not for me.

Jacqueline: That’s fair. Everyone has their niche.

Jeff: Exactly.

Greg: So after Shanghai, what was the next move?

Jeff: After Shanghai, I started thinking about moving again. I had enjoyed my time in the Middle East, and at the time the Arab Spring was happening. I thought, why am I in China when all of this is happening in the Middle East?

I had visited Cairo before on a trip and wasn’t sure I wanted to live there because it’s such a massive city. But then I visited Cairo American College with a speech and debate group and saw what they call the Maadi bubble.

Greg: Yeah, that’s a big expat area.

Jeff: Exactly. It’s a neighborhood where you can walk everywhere—restaurants, supermarkets, taxis—everything is close. I could walk to school in five minutes.

Jacqueline: So how did that actually happen?

Jeff: I had applied there earlier and didn’t get the job. But later that year, they reached out to me with another opening. I had already signed a contract, so I couldn’t go at that time.

The following year, another position opened up. My principal at the time knew the principal at Cairo and reached out on my behalf. Within about 24 to 48 hours, I had an interview and a job offer.

Greg: That’s fast.

Jeff: Yeah, it was really quick. That connection made a huge difference.

Jacqueline: And how long were you in Cairo?

Jeff: Eight years.

Jacqueline: Eight years—that’s a long time.

Jeff: It was a fantastic school. Great facilities, strong administration, and a lot of support for teachers.

One example—my refrigerator broke once, and within a couple of hours, maintenance showed up with a brand new one.

Greg: That’s the kind of support you remember.

Jeff: Definitely. Compared to earlier experiences where you were kind of on your own, it was a huge difference.

Jacqueline: So after Cairo, how did you end up in Brazil?

Jeff: Again, it came down to connections. A principal I had worked with before reached out to me about a position in the Dominican Republic. I interviewed but didn’t get the job.

But it got me thinking about Latin America.

Around the same time, a colleague connected me with a school in Rio de Janeiro. I interviewed there and ended up getting the position.

Greg: And how has that been so far?

Jeff: It’s been great. The first year was a bit of an adjustment, like any move, but once you settle in, it’s a really rewarding experience.

Jacqueline: That first year is always tough.

Jeff: Yeah, I always tell people the first year is the hardest. The second year is when everything starts to click.

Greg: That’s a good place to pause before we move on.

Greg: All right, let’s take a moment for a little commercial about how to get in touch with us. You can, of course, find all of us at itpexpat.com. That’s [www.itpexpat.com](http://www.itpexpat.com).

You can also find us by email at [internationalteacherpodcast@gmail.com](mailto:internationalteacherpodcast@gmail.com). We look forward to hearing from you.

If you’re into Facebook, we have a group at facebook.com/groups/ITPExpat where you can find all kinds of inside information about ITP.

You can also find us on Instagram at ITPExpat.

And thank you, listeners. We have over 100 countries represented by our audience. Though we’re not monetized, we are here for you, and we would like to thank all of you for listening.

So let’s get back to the show.

Jacqueline: Jeff, let’s talk a little bit about job fairs because this is one of Greg’s favorite topics.

Jeff: I’ve been to three job fairs. The first one was with ISS in Boston in 1999. I was really prepared. I had all my resumes ready, but I only got a couple of interviews.

I had one with a school in Kuala Lumpur that I was really excited about, but when I showed up, they had already hired someone. Then I had another potential opportunity in Pakistan, but that didn’t work out either.

That was my first experience, and it was a bit discouraging.

Jacqueline: That happens.

Jeff: The second fair I went to was in Kuala Lumpur. It was one of those fairs where they were mostly looking for high-demand positions—math, science, special education, and teaching couples.

I remember one of the funniest interviews I ever had. Two guys from a school in Riyadh approached me and wanted to interview me for a fifth-grade math and science position.

I told them I was a social studies and English teacher, and they said it didn’t matter.

Greg: That’s a red flag.

Jeff: Yeah. I asked them what the school was like, and they said it was terrible, the kids were difficult, and the locals didn’t interact much with foreigners. Then they said there was a hospital nearby with Filipino nurses.

Jacqueline: That’s quite the selling point.

Jeff: It was a very strange interview, and I knew right away it wasn’t the right fit.

Greg: That’s a good lesson for people listening.

Jeff: Absolutely. Not every opportunity is a good one.

Jacqueline: And then your third fair?

Jeff: The third one was the London IB fair. I had an interview with a school in Kuwait, and it went well. I ran into the recruiter again later, and they asked if I could also teach middle school.

The next day, they offered me a contract. That’s how I ended up in Kuwait.

Greg: That’s how quickly things can happen.

Jeff: Yeah, it was very fast. I asked for 24 hours to think about it, talked to some friends, and decided to go for it.

Jacqueline: That’s a great example of how job fairs can work.

Jeff: They’re also great for networking. Even if you don’t get a job, you meet people and make connections that can help you later.

Greg: That’s one of the biggest advantages.

Jeff: Definitely. I always tell people to stay at the hotel if they can, attend all the events, and talk to as many people as possible.

Jacqueline: Or at least be there all day if you’re not staying there.

Jeff: Exactly. You want to maximize your time and opportunities.

Greg: And go to the socials.

Jeff: Always go to the socials. That’s where a lot of the real networking happens.

Jacqueline: That’s a good place to leave it.

Greg: One thing I always tell people is that job fairs are not just about getting a job. They’re about learning how the system works and meeting people.

Jeff: Yeah, exactly. Even the conversations you have in the hallways or at breakfast can lead to something later on.

Jacqueline: And sometimes it’s years later.

Jeff: Absolutely. Some of the jobs I’ve gotten were from connections I made years earlier.

Greg: Let’s talk a little bit about that idea of saying yes. You mentioned earlier that you say yes to opportunities even if you’re not 100 percent ready.

Jeff: Yeah, I think that’s one of the advantages of international teaching. You get chances to try things you wouldn’t necessarily get in your home country.

For example, I’ve taught economics, Theory of Knowledge, and other courses that I didn’t originally train for. But you learn, you adapt, and you grow.

Jacqueline: That adaptability is huge.

Jeff: It is. And it also keeps the job interesting. You’re constantly learning new things and developing new skills.

Greg: And that’s something you don’t always get in a traditional system.

Jeff: Exactly. In some systems, you can be teaching the same course for years without much change. Internationally, there’s more variety.

Jacqueline: Before we wrap up, we always like to ask a couple of standard questions.

Greg: Yeah, let’s do it.

Jacqueline: First question—what are a few things you need to feel comfortable in a new place?

Jeff: That’s a good question. I would say a good place to walk. I like being able to get out and walk around, whether it’s along the water or in a neighborhood.

Second, a sense of community. Having people you can connect with makes a big difference.

And third, access to travel. I like being in a place where I can easily go explore other countries or regions.

Greg: That’s a solid list.

Jacqueline: And the second question—do you have any police or customs stories?

Jeff: I do. It actually goes back to my time in the Air Force. When I was stationed in Japan, I subscribed to a magazine called Soviet Life.

At the time, this was during the Cold War, and I was interested in international relations. The magazine was really cheap, so I signed up for a subscription.

Later, when I was stationed in Texas, I was house-sitting for a friend, and the magazine kept arriving. At some point, it raised some eyebrows because of the political climate at the time.

It wasn’t anything serious, but it was one of those moments where you realize how things can be perceived differently depending on the context.

Greg: That’s a great story.

Jacqueline: Jeff, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us.

Jeff: Thanks for having me. It’s been a lot of fun.

Greg: We’ll definitely have to have you back on, especially to talk more about later career stages in international teaching.

Jacqueline: Absolutely.

Greg: Thank you very much, and we’ll see you next episode.

All: Thank you.