ITP - 90: Recruiting Advice, Schrole, and International Teaching Careers

Greg: All right, welcome everybody. This is Greg from the ITP, and I have JP Mint. As usual, Kent is asleep. I think it's too early for him. How you doing, JP?

Jacqueline: I'm doing great. 9:00 PM on a Friday night. Kent is out, like you say. 6:00 AM on a Saturday morning. I don't blame him, but we have a friend of yours this time, Greg. I'm excited. I can't believe you actually had friends.

Greg: I can't either. Yeah, from a long time ago. I do want to introduce her. She's coming to us from Perth right now. And this is Emily Cave. Emily, how you doing this morning?

Emily: I'm great. It's really good to see your face again. Greg and Jacqueline and I have been having a great chat so far. So great to talk to you guys. I should point out to fellow listeners from Ontario, Canada that this is Perth, Australia because there is a Perth, Ontario, Canada right close to Ottawa, but this is the original Perth, I bet you. Or maybe Perth is from the UK, but I think there's actually a Perth in Scotland and I don't know which one came first, but I'm going to assume it was the one in Scotland. This one's a little farther right of Canada than Scotland, though. This is the Perth in Australia, right, JP?

Jacqueline: Yeah. Well, and our astute listeners are going to say, wait a second, Emily doesn't sound Australian. So Emily, can you give us an elevator version of how you've ended up in Australia?

Emily: Sure. Well, I'm from the US. My dad was in the Army, so I don't necessarily have a particular hometown. I became an international teacher after about six years of teaching in the US, and I've lived overseas now for 15 years. My last job was in China. I was a head of school there in Shenzhen, and I decided to take a year off and ended up doing consulting work with Schrole, and they happened to be located in Perth. So I went from doing a little bit of consulting to 100% time and moved myself over here and thought I'd see what it was like to relocate to an English-speaking country for once. Found out they don't really speak English here.

Greg: I can't wait to dive into all the cultural shock because, yeah, you're right. I mean, entering an English space, you'd be thinking there's not going to be any culture shock, but I know you've got some stories, so that is exciting. But you knew Greg in Venezuela, is that right?

Emily: That's right. Yeah. Actually, I met Greg in Iowa, and that's one of my favorite stories about how we were both at my first international teaching fair at the University of Northern Iowa, and Greg was a pro. Not that kind of pro, JP. Not that kind of pro.

Greg: That was like my third UNI fair, I think.

Emily: Yeah, probably my first. And I sat down next to Greg at a table. He just walked around saying hi to people, knew everyone, and had this calming presence. Everyone else felt intense and stressed, and Greg just came in and made it feel manageable. That stood out to me. And that fair is intense. It's basically a weekend—Friday through Sunday—and it's nonstop interviews, conversations, and decisions. I remember going from room to room or table to table constantly. I still have my notebook from those interviews.

Greg: Same here. All analog notes. I should probably go back and connect with those people on LinkedIn.

Emily: Those connections matter. I stayed in touch with someone I met at that fair, Sonia Keller, from the American School Foundation Monterrey. We had one conversation, and I kept emailing her over the years. I still see her at conferences. It just shows how small this world is.

Jacqueline: It really is. You keep running into the same people over and over again.

Greg: So let’s address the big question—how do you pronounce Schrole?

Emily: The name comes from “school” and “role,” so it’s pronounced “scroll.” But honestly, people say it different ways, and it’s fine.

Greg: I knew it.

Jacqueline: I thought it was something else entirely.

Greg: So what’s it like working at Schrole? Is it like a Google office with ping pong tables, or more traditional?

Emily: It’s somewhere in between. It’s an open office space, which took some adjustment after having my own office for years. But it’s relaxed. There’s a balcony, a barbecue, some games outside. Inside, it’s more focused, but still laid back. On Fridays, people might have a drink together and wind down. What I really enjoy is learning about business and having conversations about schools from people outside the education world. I’m one of the few people there with direct school experience, so I help translate what schools mean when they ask for certain things. Sometimes the best questions come from people who don’t have that background.

Greg: You’re like a school translator.

Emily: Exactly. And I’ve really grown to love the recruiting side of things—looking at CVs, understanding people’s career paths, and helping match them with the right roles.

Jacqueline: That’s my favorite part too—digging into CVs and finding those standout qualities.

Emily: Same. And I’ve done a lot of recruiting as a head of school. At one point, I was doing 200 interviews a year. It was a huge part of my job. And relationships matter in that process. Every interaction is a chance to build a connection. Even if you don’t hire someone, you leave that relationship in a good place. I once met a teacher who didn’t have enough experience for us to hire, but I did a mock interview with her and gave her feedback. Later, I ran into her at another fair, and she had multiple job offers. She remembered that interaction.

Jacqueline: That’s huge. People rarely get that kind of feedback.

Greg: That’s the teaching mindset—we want to help people improve.

Emily: Exactly. And it strengthens the whole international teaching community when we do that.

Greg: So one of the things I always tell people is you really need to try to get to at least one face-to-face recruiting fair. There’s just something different about meeting people in person compared to online.

Emily: I completely agree. From a teacher’s perspective, if you’re doing everything online, you’re usually trying to juggle it alongside your full-time job. That means you’re overloaded and trying to manage multiple timelines from different schools and fairs. One of my former teachers told me during COVID that he felt like he was juggling dozens of timelines—different schools, different interviews, different expectations—and it became overwhelming. He said he wished he could just go to one face-to-face fair, focus completely, and have all those conversations in one place. There’s also a mental well-being aspect. When you go in person, you can dedicate that time to the process, talk to schools, understand their timelines, and create your own decision window. It’s much more controlled. And from a school’s perspective, especially smaller schools, face-to-face matters even more. If I could get in front of a candidate, I could build a connection and help them see why they’d want to work with me. That’s much harder to do online.

Jacqueline: And it’s not just about the interviews. It’s the networking. Walking around, talking to other candidates, chatting with recruiters—sometimes not even about jobs, just about places you’ve been or want to go. We’re all educators, but we’re also travelers. You can ask someone about their city, restaurants, lifestyle, and suddenly you’re building connections that have nothing to do with a job posting.

Emily: Exactly. And you’ll see teachers naturally forming small groups—going out for dinner, sharing experiences, supporting each other. Greg and I had wings together at UNI while trying to make decisions. That camaraderie really helps, especially during what can be a stressful time. You get advice, encouragement, and a sense that you’re not alone in the process.

Greg: And those little moments matter. Someone giving you an “attaboy” or “attagirl” in the hallway, asking how your interview went—that empathy is huge. Everyone’s going through the same emotional roller coaster. And the other benefit is talking to school leaders outside of formal interviews. You might meet someone casually and hear about a country or school you never considered before.

Emily: That’s such a good point. Sometimes you hear someone describe their life in a place, and you realize it actually fits you perfectly—even if you never would have considered it before.

Greg: Exactly. We had a recent guest talking about Bangladesh, and it completely changed how we viewed it. That’s the power of these conversations.

Greg: So Emily, let’s shift gears a bit. What advice would you give teachers about putting their best foot forward in the recruiting process?

Emily: One of the biggest things is self-reflection. You need to understand who you are, what you want, and where you want to go. If you don’t have that clarity, it’s very hard to recognize the right opportunity when it comes along. I’ve seen people get stuck in a cycle where they take a job without really thinking it through, then they’re unhappy, and they rush into the next job just to get out. That cycle can repeat if you don’t step back and reflect. So start with a few simple questions: Who am I as an educator? What do I want next? What does that look like? Once you have that clarity, you can identify the right opportunities. The second piece is learning how to communicate your value. As teachers, we’re not used to selling ourselves. It can feel uncomfortable to talk about achievements or impact. But schools need to know not just what you’ve done, but the results. What changed because you were there? How did your students grow? When you talk about a project, don’t just describe the activity—talk about the learning. What did students struggle with? How did they improve? That’s what brings your teaching to life in an interview.

Jacqueline: And that’s when you see the passion. When teachers talk about their students and their impact, it becomes real.

Emily: Exactly. That’s when you move away from rehearsed answers and into authenticity. That’s what interviewers are really looking for. And finally, no matter where you are in your career, keep doing your best in your current role. Even if you know you’re leaving, that experience is still shaping you. Don’t fall into the trap of checking out. That only reinforces bad habits. Instead, use that time to grow, reflect, and improve. That will show up in your next interview.

Greg: I love that. I always say the last few months at a school are your chance to leave a lasting impression. You’ve got your next job lined up—now you can really focus on making an impact. Leave on a high note. Make it memorable. That’s what people will remember.

Emily: Absolutely. And those relationships and impressions stay with you throughout your career.

Greg: So Emily, I want to go back to something you said about interviewing and relationships. How much does that personal connection actually influence hiring decisions?

Emily: It matters a lot. Schools are looking for people they want to work with every day. You can have the qualifications, but if the connection isn’t there, it’s harder to move forward. That doesn’t mean being fake or trying to impress—it means being authentic and professional. People want to know who you are as a colleague. Can they collaborate with you? Can they trust you? Those things come through in conversations.

Jacqueline: And you can usually tell pretty quickly if someone is being genuine or just giving rehearsed answers.

Emily: Exactly. And that’s why preparation is important, but over-preparation can actually hurt you. If you sound scripted, it’s harder to connect. You want to be ready, but also flexible and able to have a real conversation.

Greg: So what are some common mistakes you see candidates make?

Emily: One is not doing enough research on the school. If you don’t understand the school’s context, mission, or program, it shows. Another is focusing too much on what the school can do for you instead of what you can contribute. It’s important to ask questions, but it should be a two-way conversation. And sometimes people don’t clearly explain their experience. They list what they’ve done, but they don’t explain the impact.

Jacqueline: That’s a big one. People forget to connect their experience to student learning.

Emily: Exactly. Always bring it back to students. That’s what schools care about most.

Greg: Let’s flip that. What makes a candidate stand out?

Emily: Clarity and authenticity. Someone who knows who they are and can communicate that clearly stands out immediately. Also, people who ask thoughtful questions—not just about salary or housing, but about the school culture, collaboration, and professional growth. And attitude. Someone who is positive, reflective, and open to learning makes a strong impression.

Jacqueline: That reflective piece is huge—being able to talk about what didn’t go well and what you learned from it.

Emily: Yes, that’s often more powerful than talking about successes. Schools want to know how you grow.

Greg: So for someone new to international teaching, what would you say is the biggest mindset shift they need?

Emily: Flexibility. Things will be different—curriculum, culture, expectations. You have to be open to that. And patience. It takes time to adjust, both professionally and personally. But if you embrace that, it can be incredibly rewarding.

Jacqueline: And probably humility too—realizing you don’t know everything walking into a new context.

Emily: Absolutely. The best international teachers are learners first.

Greg: That’s a great way to put it.

Greg: All right, Emily, as we wrap this up, I want to go back to your experience moving to Australia. What surprised you the most about transitioning into an English-speaking country?

Emily: I think the biggest surprise was that even though it’s technically the same language, there are still cultural differences that show up in communication styles. Humor is different, expectations in the workplace can be different, and even small things like phrasing can throw you off. I also realized how much of my identity was tied to being an international educator in non-English-speaking environments. When you move into a place where language isn’t a barrier, other things become more noticeable.

Jacqueline: That’s interesting because a lot of teachers think moving to an English-speaking country will be easier, but it sounds like it’s just different challenges.

Emily: Exactly. It’s not necessarily easier—it’s just a different kind of adjustment. You still have to learn the culture, the norms, and how people interact.

Greg: And I imagine professionally it’s different too, being outside of a school environment and into more of a business setting.

Emily: Yes, that was a big shift. In schools, you’re used to a certain rhythm and a certain kind of collaboration. In a business, things move differently. There are different priorities and different ways of communicating. But it’s been really valuable to see that side of things, especially in terms of how schools operate within the larger ecosystem of recruitment and services.

Jacqueline: I think that perspective is so important for educators, especially those thinking about leadership roles or transitions later in their careers.

Emily: Definitely. It gives you a broader understanding of the field and helps you see how everything connects.

Greg: So if someone is listening right now and thinking about making a move—whether it’s their first international job or a transition into something like what you’re doing—what would you say to them?

Emily: I would say be open and intentional. Think about what you want, but also be open to opportunities that might not look exactly how you imagined. And don’t be afraid to take a risk. Some of the best opportunities come from saying yes to something unexpected. At the same time, make sure you’re making decisions for the right reasons. Don’t just move because you feel stuck—move because you’re moving toward something.

Jacqueline: That’s a great distinction—moving toward something rather than away from something.

Emily: Exactly. That mindset makes a huge difference in how you experience the transition.

Greg: Well, Emily, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a great conversation.

Emily: Thank you. It’s been really fun.

Jacqueline: Thanks, Emily. It was great having you.

Greg: And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in. We’ll see you next episode.

All: Thank you.