ITP - 89: College Counseling for International Students Abroad

Greg: Let me have a sip of tea here for a second. Oh, Ellen's going to bring us in. You're on, Ellen.

Ellen: Hi, my name is Ellen and I'm a college counselor being interviewed today on the International Teacher Podcast.

Greg: Woo. Well done. Thank you, Ellen. We have all three of us here today. We've got Greg the single guy in the Middle East, Kent the cat guy in the Middle East, and JP is in Mexico. And Ellen, you are coming to us from Dhaka, Bangladesh. You're our first guest on here from Bangladesh, so thank you for joining us.

Ellen: Thanks for having me. That's exciting. Lots of firsts.

Greg: First college counselor, first time guest from Bangladesh, and the first time I think I've ever heard a guest introduce themselves like that.

Ellen: One more first. There we go.

Greg: Ellen, you are a college counselor in a K through 12 school. Let’s get into that a little bit. Can you give us the elevator version of what brought you to Bangladesh?

Ellen: Yeah, I was really fortunate to go to the University of Northern Iowa. I'm an Iowa native, and I went to UNI, which you may know as the university that hosts the UNI Teachers Fair and has for many years. At one point it was the only non-profit international teaching fair. I was fortunate because I didn’t have to travel—I was already in Iowa. From the time I was in the teaching program, I had my sights set on teaching abroad. I did my student teaching in Vienna, Austria, then took a year off and worked at a boarding school. After that, I went back to get my master’s degree, returned to the UNI Fair, and got my first teaching job. From there I worked in Taiwan, Nigeria, Guinea, Turkey, back to Taiwan, and then I’ve been in Dhaka for the last four years during the COVID pandemic.

Greg: Did you mean Guinea the country in West Africa?

Ellen: Yes, Guinea the country.

Greg: Wow, you’ve been a lot of places.

Jacqueline: Tell us a little bit about being a college counselor. None of us have really interacted with one before, so we’re curious.

Ellen: I’m a school counselor, but I work in a university-preparation international high school. We have a dedicated university counselor role—now called a university and careers counselor—as well as a social-emotional counselor in the secondary division. That allows students and families to have multiple people they can talk to when they’re unsure about their future. I work on programming with students, help with course selection, and I also teach weekly classes because I started as a teacher—humanities and English as an additional language. I call myself a “teaching counselor” because I really value that weekly connection with students.

Ellen: A lot of my work is also behind the scenes—helping with the application process and building relationships with university representatives so they know about my school and my country. That’s been one of the exciting parts of being in Bangladesh. It’s an emerging market for international universities, with many students looking to study abroad for undergraduate and graduate degrees. There are strong universities in Bangladesh, but many students aspire to go abroad. I mainly work with undergraduate students, and I really enjoy it because every day is different.

Greg: I’ve never met a college counselor before. Has it been difficult to find roles like that?

Ellen: Some of my early roles were more general school counseling roles. In the US and Canada, it’s common to have one counselor responsible for everything—social-emotional, academic, and college counseling. According to the American School Counseling Association, some counselors have caseloads of up to 900 students. That’s one reason many educators choose to work abroad—to work with smaller groups of students. Others are interested in international populations and want to explore where their students come from. That can lead them to working in different countries.

Jacqueline: That crossover is really interesting—you’re not just helping students find universities, but also supporting them through major life transitions.

Greg: Ellen, I’m curious. In the US, most students go to a few local universities. But at an international school, students might go anywhere—Bangladesh, the US, Korea, Japan. How do you handle advising students globally?

Ellen: That’s a great question. One of the biggest supports is the network of college counselors. It’s incredibly connected and active. If you’re in a country, there’s usually an established network—or you create one by reaching out to others doing the same work. The role can be quite solitary compared to teaching. Teachers have teams, but counselors are often on their own. I’m fortunate to work at a school with multiple counselors, so I collaborate with my social-emotional colleague and a primary counselor.

Ellen: With today’s connectivity, it’s much easier than it would have been decades ago. Universities visit schools, regional representatives travel through areas like South Asia, and we get direct access to information. These visits are incredibly valuable because students hear directly from admissions representatives. Students are curious about differences—like US versus UK systems, safety, housing costs, and more. It helps them become global thinkers and make informed decisions.

Greg: So how do you handle families who might put a lot of pressure on the process?

Ellen: That’s something I actually enjoy about my job. I’m not the final decision-maker. I can guide students and families, but admissions decisions and financial aid are out of my hands. My role is to help students understand the process and connect them with resources. Even with very affluent families, the focus is on finding the right fit—not just getting into a prestigious university. Fit includes academics, environment, and lifestyle for the next four years.

Greg: Ellen, when I went to college, I went to the University of Wisconsin, a small little town. It was amazing because one of my fraternity brothers, Rajesh Kapadia—we called him Boogie because no one could say his name—he was from Dhaka, Bangladesh and from a very wealthy family. I always wondered how he ended up in a place like that. It’s really cool to hear there are people like you helping students find the right fit, not just picking randomly from a list.

Ellen: Yes, absolutely. Universities want international students, not just for tuition, but for diversity and global perspective. I recently had my students attend a visa session hosted by the US Embassy, and one of the points they made was exactly that—international students bring value to campuses. While some students do pay higher tuition, many are also seeking scholarships and financial aid. Some of my students receive enough aid to pay rates similar to domestic students. Many families I work with are already paying high tuition at international schools, so they’ve been planning for this for years.

Ellen: For some families, sending a child abroad can be life-changing economically. Students gain an English-language education, global exposure, and skills they can bring back home. At the same time, host countries benefit from having international students on campus. Even if domestic students don’t travel abroad, they still gain exposure to different cultures through international classmates. That interaction is incredibly valuable.

Jacqueline: I’ve seen that too. Programs like conversation partners at universities really open people up to different cultures.

Ellen: Exactly. I met students from China, Poland, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and many other places through those kinds of programs. It expanded my worldview even before I started traveling.

Greg: How much do you need to know about local universities when you arrive in a country? For example, in Mexico, many students want to stay domestic rather than go abroad.

Ellen: That’s a great question. It depends on the context, but a good college counselor will learn the local system. I’ve had colleagues organize visits to local universities when students were interested. It’s similar to teaching—you learn about your students’ backgrounds to better support them. I’ve also connected with local professionals, visited campuses, and built relationships. You don’t need to know everything immediately, but you need to be willing to learn and say, “Let me get back to you.” In my case, I’ve only had a couple of students choose to stay local, but I was prepared with resources when they did.

Greg: How big is your school right now?

Ellen: I work with small cohorts—between about 20 and 45 students total. That allows me to support them more closely throughout the process.

Greg: So you’re not talking about a class of 45—you’re talking about your entire group of students?

Ellen: Exactly. It’s a small school. In larger schools, counselors might specialize—for example, one counselor for engineering, another for medical fields. I’m more of a one-stop shop. I also use teachers as resources. Every teacher has been to university, so I survey staff about their backgrounds. If a student is interested in law, I connect them with a teacher who studied law. If someone is interested in medicine, I connect them with a science teacher who considered that path. I’m currently looking for an architect to connect with students, since no one on staff has that background.

Greg: Let’s talk about third culture kids—students who have grown up abroad and then go “home” for university. What’s that like?

Ellen: That transition can be challenging. I had a student from the Philippines who had grown up abroad and then considered returning home for university. She had to adjust to language expectations and cultural norms she hadn’t experienced in years. These students often need support with identity, expectations, and logistics like visas and finances. Some families also consider branch campuses as an option—places like Qatar, the UAE, or Malaysia, where students can earn degrees from US or UK universities closer to home. These campuses can sometimes be more accessible financially or logistically, and they reduce distance from family, which became especially important after COVID.

Greg: What about cost differences for those branch campuses?

Ellen: It varies. Some are more affordable, like certain campuses in Dubai, while others charge the same as the home campus. Families also consider travel costs and proximity, especially after the pandemic.

Greg: Do you ever get “horror stories” from families or students during this process?

Ellen: I wouldn’t call them horror stories, but sometimes families are very involved. I’ve had situations where it’s not just the student going to university—the family is deeply involved in the decision, even considering moving with the student. That can influence choices significantly. For example, a student might be admitted to a great program far away but choose a closer option because it works better for the family. It all comes back to fit—not just for the student, but for the family as well.

Jacqueline: That family dynamic piece is really interesting because it’s not something teachers always think about. You’re not just advising a student—you’re navigating a whole system around them.

Ellen: Exactly. And every family approaches it differently. Some give their child a lot of independence, while others are very hands-on. Part of my role is balancing that—making sure the student’s voice is heard while respecting the family’s perspective.

Greg: Do you ever have students who just don’t know what they want to do at all?

Ellen: All the time. And that’s completely normal. I actually try to take pressure off that question. Instead of “What do you want to be?” we talk about interests, strengths, and values. Those are much better starting points. I also remind students that their first degree doesn’t lock them into a career forever. There’s flexibility, and many people change paths later on.

Jacqueline: That’s such an important message, especially with how fast the world is changing.

Ellen: Absolutely. Many of the jobs students will have don’t even exist yet. So we focus on transferable skills—critical thinking, communication, adaptability.

Greg: So how early do you start working with students on this process?

Ellen: Ideally, we start conversations as early as grade 9. It’s not about applications at that stage—it’s about awareness. Helping students understand options, explore interests, and make informed decisions about courses. By grade 11, things become more focused—building lists, preparing for applications, thinking about testing if required. And then grade 12 is the full application process.

Greg: That’s a long runway.

Ellen: It is, but it helps reduce stress later. Students who start early tend to feel more confident and prepared.

Jacqueline: What about students who come in late, like in grade 11 or 12, from different systems?

Ellen: That can be more challenging, but it’s manageable. It just means more intensive support in a shorter period of time. We focus on priorities—transcripts, recommendations, and building a realistic list of options. International schools are used to that kind of mobility, so there are systems in place to support those students.

Greg: Do students ever surprise you with where they end up?

Ellen: All the time. Sometimes a student who seems unsure ends up finding a perfect fit and thriving. Other times, students who have a very fixed idea realize there are better options out there. That’s one of the most rewarding parts of the job—seeing that growth and discovery.

Jacqueline: And probably seeing them a few years later and hearing how it worked out.

Ellen: Yes, alumni updates are the best. When students come back and share their experiences, it helps inform future advising as well.

Greg: That feedback loop is huge.

Ellen: It really is. It keeps the work grounded in real outcomes, not just theory.

Greg: Ellen, as we start to wrap this up, I want to ask—what’s one thing you wish more teachers understood about the college counseling process?

Ellen: I think one of the biggest things is that it’s a long process, and it’s not just about the final application. Everything a student does throughout high school contributes to their story. Teachers play a huge role in that—through recommendations, classroom experiences, and mentorship. When teachers understand how their classes and interactions contribute to that bigger picture, it really strengthens the process for students.

Jacqueline: That makes a lot of sense. Teachers are part of that narrative, whether they realize it or not.

Ellen: Exactly. And strong teacher recommendations can make a real difference. Not just listing what a student did, but explaining who they are as a learner and a person.

Greg: So for teachers listening, it’s not just about grades—it’s about helping tell the student’s story.

Ellen: Yes, absolutely. And also encouraging students to get involved, try new things, and reflect on their experiences. That’s what makes applications stand out.

Jacqueline: What about for students—what’s one piece of advice you’d give them directly?

Ellen: Be open. Don’t limit yourself too early. There are so many pathways, and sometimes the best opportunities are the ones you didn’t initially consider. And take ownership of the process. It’s your future, so you should be the one driving it. Also, don’t be afraid to ask for help. There are people around you—counselors, teachers, family—who want to support you.

Greg: That’s great advice.

Greg: All right, Ellen, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a great conversation and really insightful for our audience.

Ellen: Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed it.

Jacqueline: Thanks, Ellen. It was great hearing your perspective.

Greg: And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in. We’ll see you next episode.

All: Thank you.