ITP - 82: Mark Zoril – Another Episode Worth Millions

Greg: All right, everybody. This is Greg, the single guy coming at you from the International Teacher Podcast, and I have JP Mint and Kent both here with me this time. How you doing, guys?

JP: We’re great.

Kent: I’m great.

Greg: And I think the reason why we’re all here is because of our guest. We’re very excited to have Mark Zorrel. Can you tell us a little bit about him, Greg? Well, from what I understand—and this is a little bit from Andrew Hallam, who’s been a guest on our show before—Andrew calls Mark basically the most famous financial advisor in the world. He says it’s mainly because you have a lot of expat clients that reach out and you’re really the guide to be. Mark, it’s a pleasure to have you on our show to talk a little bit about investment and what you can do, especially for international teachers. But I want to welcome you to our show.

Mark: Thank you for the invitation. I’m delighted to be here.

Greg: And you’re coming to us from North Carolina.

Mark: Yes. Our family moved to North Carolina two and a half years ago. When I originally started working with expats in my business model, which began about eight years ago, I was in Minnesota at the time. But our family moved here about two and a half years ago.

Greg: OK, so Mark, we met in 2017 when I finished reading Andrew Hallam’s *Millionaire Teacher*. There’s a part in the book that says if you have questions, there’s a guide on the side—Mark Zorrel at Plan Vision in Minnesota. So I reached out to you in 2017. You’re saying you only started Plan Vision a few years before that?

Mark: I had been in the financial services industry since 1995, and I started Plan Vision in 2012. I was interested in a new model of how I could work with people. Before that, I was helping small employers set up retirement plans and doing a little individual planning as part of that. Then I began to focus more on individual work—helping people plan and set up portfolios in a very low-cost way, recommending ETFs and index funds. I really started focusing on that model around 2015. I eventually moved away from the group and 401(k) business to concentrate on this. Then I connected with Andrew around 2016 in a somewhat unusual way. There’s an online service called Help A Reporter Out. Reporters reach out for expertise. I used to get their newsletter, and Andrew Hallam was looking for advisors who promote index investing. It’s not a fringe idea anymore—it’s quite mainstream—but there aren’t many firms that focus solely on it. That was his philosophy as well, so we connected and went from there.

Greg: Mark, what’s your background? Did you study economics? Is this something you’ve always been passionate about?

Mark: No, I didn’t study economics. I have a business degree from Southern Methodist University in Texas. After graduating, I moved to Minnesota somewhat on a whim to spend time with a friend and ended up staying there for many years. I worked in sales roles before stumbling into a job with a company called Valic. They provide retirement plans for nonprofit organizations, including many in education. My role was helping small employers, mostly nonprofits, set up retirement plans—typically 403(b) plans. Through that, I gained a lot of experience working directly with individuals on financial planning. So I don’t have a formal finance or economics background—it was more about learning how to talk with people about their finances and help them plan.

Greg: When did that shift into focusing on expats? Is your business mostly international teachers now?

Mark: It’s strictly individual planning—I don’t work with groups anymore. We have both domestic clients in the U.S. and expat clients. I’d estimate it’s about 55% expats and 45% domestic clients. We also have a colleague, Jason Lynch, who does tax planning for American clients. So our business is really split between domestic and expat individuals. At the core, most people have the same goal—they want to retire at some point and have stability and security in their lives. We help them figure out how to do that, whether they’re living in the U.S. or abroad.

Greg: So if someone reaches out to you to become a client, what does that process look like?

Mark: It varies depending on the person. We work with people as young as 25 and others in their 80s. Some expats come to us in their late 40s or 50s with complex situations—pensions in different countries, unclear retirement paths, things like that. Our process is different from traditional advisors. We don’t do free intro meetings. People go to our website, purchase the service, and then schedule an introductory session. That’s usually about 20 minutes. They also fill out a short survey beforehand so we understand their background—where they’re from, where they live, what currency they’re using, and their goals. Some clients just want help getting started—opening a brokerage account, funding it, buying ETFs. Others want full financial planning, which includes a deeper look at their future. For planning, we use a system called eMoney, which allows us to model different financial scenarios. It’s quite robust and can be adapted for different countries and tax situations. So some clients want simple investment guidance, others want full planning, and many want both. That’s essentially how the process works.

Greg: I was just going to say that for anyone listening out there thinking, “Oh my gosh, this must cost thousands and thousands of dollars to hire you,” this is why you're on the show today. We want international teachers who are making tax-free dollars to know that this is actually an affordable way to start saving and investing.

Mark: Let me interject if I could. We started this whole thing—and this sounds like a gimmick—but it was $96. That was the whole thing. $96 a year. We’ve raised the price a few times, but now for new clients it’s $299 for the first year. Then it renews at $8 a month, and you can cancel at any time. The only way we can make this work is by having clients buy into how we operate. We have to use technology efficiently. When someone buys our service, they immediately get an email with a short onboarding survey—about three or four minutes. They tell us things like where they’re from, where they live, and what currency they want to invest in. This allows us to gather information efficiently, then meet with them and guide them. We also have videos to help them open accounts and get started. Many clients want help during their first ETF purchase, so we’ll meet with them and walk them through it step by step. A recent development is that we now record all sessions. The system uses AI to generate transcripts and summaries. The output is incredibly accurate—it captures recommendations and key points from the session. Using tools like this allows us to stay efficient, keep costs low, and still provide a high-quality service.

JP: I remember when I first saw your pricing, I thought it had to be per month. I couldn’t believe it was per year. Full disclosure, I was a client of Mark’s for about seven years. In 2023, I wrote him an email saying I didn’t think I needed the service anymore because I had retired and was now drawing from the investments he helped me build. I’ve always been curious about how the model works, and I’m glad you’re explaining it.

Greg: Mark, I might have to sign up myself. As a teacher, I’m not great with finances. I don’t enjoy it. I’d rather just ignore it. From what I understand, your service is more of a guide. You don’t manage the money—you help people make better decisions and get more out of what they’re already doing. For example, I have investments through my school and money from Switzerland. I think I could get more out of it by talking to someone like you and doing some planning.

Mark: Many of the people we work with are actually already doing fairly well. They’re saving consistently and moving in the right direction, but they’re not sure how good their plan really is. For those people, we provide confirmation and clarity. We help answer questions like when they can retire, whether they need to work part-time, and how much they need to save. We also assess their investments—whether they’re missing anything or have unnecessary overlap. For others, they’re starting from a lower level of understanding. They need help building a plan from the ground up.

Greg: And it’s never too late to start, right?

Mark: Let me expand on that. Some people reach a point—maybe in their 40s or 50s—where they realize they haven’t saved enough. In those cases, we have to be honest. They need to save as much as they reasonably can and possibly work longer than expected. They may also need to consider living in a lower-cost country or working part-time later in life. We don’t have magic investments that fix everything. It’s about creating a realistic plan based on their situation.

Greg: Kent, you had a question earlier about generational differences in financial planning.

Kent: Yeah, it feels like our generation is suddenly hit with this pressure to plan for retirement. I don’t remember my parents talking about it the same way.

Mark: That’s a great point. I was influenced by a researcher named Ken Dychtwald from Age Wave. He talked about how longevity has increased dramatically over the last century. Retirement wasn’t really a concept before. People didn’t live long enough. Now people live longer and stay healthier longer, so they need to plan for decades of life after work. That creates a responsibility to save. Expats especially may not have access to government pensions, so they need to rely on their own planning. There’s also a psychological component. Some people avoid finances because they find it uncomfortable, even if they are saving. But ultimately, living longer means more pressure to plan for the future.

Greg: You keep talking about me, Mark. You’re describing that person who saves but doesn’t really know what they’re doing.

Mark: I could comment on that. Andrew Hallam has a great line—he says the best retirement plan is just to save like crazy. If you do that consistently, you’re probably going to end up in a pretty good place. Now, you still want to be mindful of bad investments, but if you’re saving 12 to 18 percent consistently over time, even if you miss a year here or there, you’ll likely be close to your goals.

Greg: I’ve fallen into some of those traps before—giving money to someone else to invest without really understanding it. It felt like I could lose everything if I pulled out too early. That was years ago, before I really learned anything about finances. Now I’m just saving, putting money away, and trying to be smarter about it. I still joke that I’ll be teaching at 85. Let’s take a quick moment to tell listeners how to get in touch with us. You can find us at itpexpat.com. You can email us at [internationalteacherpodcast@gmail.com](mailto:internationalteacherpodcast@gmail.com). We also have a Facebook group at facebook.com/groups/ITPexpat and an Instagram at ITPExpats. Thanks to listeners from over 100 countries. Let’s get back to the show.

Mark: This isn’t for everyone, but many people identify as workers. They enjoy working and don’t necessarily want to fully retire. Others value time with family or a slower lifestyle and may want to transition to part-time work. One idea that’s become more common is reinventing yourself later in life. You might work one career for 10 or 20 years, take time off, then start something new. Because people are living longer, you now have more opportunities to pursue different paths over a lifetime.

JP: You mentioned earlier that if someone doesn’t have enough savings, they might need to move to a lower-cost country. Can you talk more about that?

Mark: Yes. We hear this from clients all the time. There are parts of the world where the cost of living is significantly lower—Southeast Asia, Central America, parts of Eastern Europe. Some clients live comfortably on $28,000 to $32,000 a year in places like Thailand. In Panama, it can be even less. These are real options, especially for expats who are already comfortable living abroad. Technology also makes it easier. You can stay connected with family and manage your finances across borders. From a financial perspective, it’s not overly complicated. You can maintain accounts in your home currency and spend in another. Services like Wise and Revolut make it even easier to transfer and manage money internationally.

JP: I only discovered Wise recently, and I couldn’t believe how much money I had been losing in fees over the years.

Mark: Exactly. These tools didn’t exist 20 years ago. The same goes for ETFs—you can now buy a single fund that holds thousands of stocks globally at a very low cost.

Greg: Do you have any travel or financial stories from your work?

Mark: Not really. I don’t travel much, and I don’t spend time with other financial advisors. But I will say that expats have a mindset that many people don’t—they’re willing to move and adapt. That flexibility can be a huge advantage financially, especially if they’re open to living in lower-cost areas.

JP: That’s definitely true. A lot of people wouldn’t consider moving away from their home country.

Greg: Mark, as we wrap up, what’s one piece of advice you’d give to our listeners?

Mark: The biggest factor in financial success is how much you save. It’s simple, but it’s true. Keep your investments simple. Avoid chasing trends or overcomplicating things. Focus on consistency. It’s not glamorous, but it works.

JP: I have to ask—did you invest in Zoom before COVID? You were the first person I knew who used it.

Mark: I’ve never bought an individual stock. I discovered Zoom through a client who worked in video technology. We started using it early because it was more advanced than Skype at the time. Before COVID, we had to send instructions to clients on how to use Zoom. Now everyone knows how.

Greg: Technology has really changed the game for your kind of work.

Mark: Absolutely. We now have a team of five people working remotely, and we can serve clients all over the world.

Greg: Mark, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate your time.

Mark: Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity.

Greg: We’ll include links to your services and your podcast—the Plan Vision Podcast—in our show notes. Thanks again, and we’ll see everyone next time.