ITP - 70: Life is Stranger Than Fiction

Greg: So this is Greg reporting live with the International Teacher Podcast. I'm sorry it's a little early, so Kent is probably asleep.

It's the morning and the weekend for him, so I pardon that, of course. But I do have someone a little bit later in Mexico, and that is my co-host Jacqueline. How are you doing, Jacqueline?

Jacqueline: Hi, Greg. I'm really excited because I get to talk with an old friend.

This is a friend that I have not seen—well, I haven't seen physically in years. We worked together. I was trying to work it out. I think it's 20 years ago we worked together in Istanbul, and so I'm so excited to have her on the show.

Greg: Well, hello, Annette.

Annette: Hi there. Thanks for having me.

Greg: Annette, can you tell me your name again? Because I noticed that you actually had a hyphenated name. I knew you as Annette Gobbles, but are you going by the hyphen now?

Annette: No, so I'm going by Annette Gobbles. Gobbles is my husband's name, and my maiden name is Von Ordon. But I go by Gobbles.

Greg: All right, and can you tell us—you hinted that you're in Vietnam—but can you tell us what city, what your position is, how long you've been there, and kind of roll us through where you are now?

Annette: Definitely, yes. I'm currently in Hanoi in the northern part of Vietnam, and I'm working at a school, UNIS, United Nations International School.

This is my third year here, and we started three years ago during COVID times, so that was a very interesting start here.

Our first year meant quarantine, lockdowns—three quarters of the year teaching my students online, students I'd never met face to face. So that was my first year here.

And then last year things got a bit more normal, and now this year we're fully back to normal and really enjoying my time here.

It's a beautiful country and a great city.

Greg: And you're teaching?

Annette: I'm teaching mathematics. My role is curriculum lead of high school mathematics, grade 9 to 12. So I'm teaching MYP and DP in math.

Greg: Excellent. And are you by yourself? You did mention a husband, so who do you have with you there?

Annette: Definitely, yes. So over this past—what is it—16 years, we have been traveling as a family of four. However, now we are here with the three of us because my son, my eldest, just graduated last year.

So now it's my husband, who is also an international teacher here at UNIS. He's teaching design, MYP and DP, and my daughter, she is in grade 12.

So we're here with the three of us for the first year. That was quite a big transition for our family after being together as a unit of four all these years.

Greg: And where is Rafael?

Annette: So Rafael, he is now back home in the Netherlands. Well, I'm saying home for him—it’s probably less home than it used to be for me because he hasn't lived in the Netherlands for more than, what would it be, three years in total before now moving back.

So he's in Amsterdam. He just started his medicine program.

Greg: Very nice. So he was into the sciences.

Annette: Definitely, yes. Which was interesting because officially, as part of the DP program, you can only take two sciences, and the Netherlands requires all three sciences as an entry requirement for medicine.

So he had to actually study one of the three sciences by himself to be able to enter that program.

Greg: So he was doing some kind of online or self-study?

Annette: He did a self-study, yes—biology. He just did it and took the state exam in the Netherlands last summer.

Greg: And here's something that might be interesting for our listeners. When you go overseas and you have children that are going up in grades—and say you're a high school teacher—did you ever teach your son or your daughter?

Annette: I did not, no. We've always been at schools that were big enough that we have multiple classes in a grade level, so they have never been in my classes.

I did help them a bit with their math work.

Greg: Okay, well that's interesting because I was thinking maybe you had been at some smaller schools.

Jacqueline: Greg, you might be interested to hear how many different countries Annette and Jacques have lived in. Did you happen to make a list, Annette?

Annette: Yeah, I do remember all of them. Do you want me to list them?

Jacqueline: Maybe we take a step back. Start where we met and move us forward from there.

Annette: Yeah, I will. So it might be interesting to take one extra step back.

I studied mathematics in university, and then I did this one-year teacher program, which was fully focused on bilingual and international education. So that was a post-master teaching program.

For any of the Dutch listeners, they might be interested in that because it really helped me get into international teaching right away.

So I did that, and I taught for four years at a bilingual school in the Netherlands—bilingual being Dutch and English.

Before I then went to my first job fair in London and had these amazing options suddenly coming up, and that’s where we accepted a job in Istanbul.

Greg: What year was that? I'm trying to remember.

Annette: I think it must have been around 2007.

Greg: And this is when you went as a family with two young kids, right?

Annette: Yes, they were one and three years old. We just made the jump.

It was obviously a big step for our young family, especially because my husband had a job in the Netherlands at a web design office, and he just quit his job and we went on one job to Istanbul.

But soon after, the school realized his talents and he moved into the IT department initially and then started teaching as well.

So that was a really big step for a young family, but we never regretted it. It worked out well.

Greg: Let's maybe take a pause here and talk about your family's reaction—family and friends—when you announced you were going overseas. You went to London, got a job, came back to the Netherlands, and then what was their reaction?

Annette: Mixed. I think they were very excited and happy for us. We were the first people in their environment who did that.

I definitely remember my parents not being overly thrilled because our kids were one and three years old. They really loved spending time with them, and they realized that time was going to be much less.

Having said that, the time we spend with them after we moved abroad is very different. It's much more intense. The summer holidays or other holidays—either they come to us or we go to them.

You only have so much time, so you spend it in a more intense way.

Greg: I find that fascinating because I've run into so many Dutch people overseas over the past 20 years that I don't think there are any Dutch people living in the Netherlands anymore.

I love being around Dutch people. I'm never around them enough anymore where I'm at, but I think you guys are wonderful as a whole group.

Annette: Thanks for saying that.

Greg: So you had mixed reactions. Did anybody have concerns about you moving to a Muslim country, like Turkey?

Annette: I don't think so. Maybe because Turkey is relatively close to the Netherlands, and we have many Turkish people living in the Netherlands.

Also, many Dutch people visit Turkey for holidays, so I don't think there were major concerns.

Greg: What made you choose the school in Turkey?

Annette: We did have several offers on the table. I remember that weekend—it was amazing. I was there in London, and my husband and children were at home, so we had calls back and forth discussing options.

We had to make the decision by the end of the weekend, which is how it usually goes.

Greg: Really? That fast?

Annette: Yes. We had several conversations and had to decide quickly.

Greg: So you were Skyping your family and then signed with Turkey. How many years did you stay there?

Annette: We stayed for three years in Turkey. In the third year, we had to make a big choice, mainly for our children.

The school was bilingual—half Turkish, half English. Their Turkish was fluent, and their English was developing well.

We had to decide whether to stay long-term or move to a fully English-speaking international school.

It was not an easy choice because we really loved Turkey—the food, the people, the culture, the climate, everything.

But in the end, we decided to move.

Greg: That’s a tough decision.

Annette: Yes, but we were very lucky that our first experience overseas was such a good one.

Greg: And then what happened next?

Annette: After Turkey, we moved to Malaysia. That was our next posting, and it was a very different experience.

We went from a bilingual environment into a fully international school setting. It was a British curriculum school, so again something new for us.

Greg: So you went from IB into British curriculum?

Annette: Yes, exactly. And that was a bit of a shift professionally as well, learning a new system, new expectations, and adapting to a different style of teaching.

Jacqueline: And how long were you in Malaysia?

Annette: We were there for four years. It was a fantastic experience for our family.

Greg: And your kids at that point—what ages were they?

Annette: They were in primary school at that time, so it was a great age for them to adapt and enjoy the environment.

Greg: And then after Malaysia?

Annette: After Malaysia, we moved to China. We were in Shanghai.

Greg: That’s a big shift.

Annette: Yes, definitely. Completely different again. But by that point, we were quite used to moving and adapting.

Jacqueline: And how was that experience compared to Malaysia?

Annette: Very different. Shanghai is a huge city, very fast-paced. The school was excellent, but life outside of school was very different from what we had in Malaysia.

Greg: And how long were you in China?

Annette: We were there for several years before moving to Vietnam, where we are now.

Greg: So Vietnam is your current stop. Do you see yourselves staying there long term, or are you still thinking about moving again?

Annette: At the moment, we’re really happy here. It feels like a good place to be, especially with our daughter finishing school soon.

After that, we’ll see. We’re always open to new opportunities, but we’re not in a rush.

Jacqueline: That’s the international life, right? Always open, but never quite settled.

Annette: Exactly.

Greg: That’s what keeps it interesting.

Greg: So let’s talk a little bit about Vietnam specifically. What is it that you enjoy most about living in Hanoi?

Annette: I really enjoy the culture and the food. The food is incredible. There’s so much variety, and it’s very fresh.

I also enjoy the energy of the city. It’s very busy, very alive, but at the same time you can find quiet places when you need them.

Greg: And how about the school community?

Annette: The school community is fantastic. Very supportive, very collaborative. I feel very lucky to be part of it.

Jacqueline: That makes such a difference.

Annette: It really does. It can make or break your experience.

Greg: So if someone was thinking about going to Vietnam, what would you tell them?

Annette: I would say go for it. It’s a wonderful place to live and work. It might take a little time to adjust, but it’s definitely worth it.

Greg: That’s great advice.

Jacqueline: Absolutely.

Greg: Well, Annette, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your journey with us.

Annette: Thank you so much for having me. It was really nice to reconnect.

Jacqueline: So great to see you again.

Greg: And to our listeners, thanks for tuning in. We’ll see you next time on the International Teacher Podcast.

Kent: Exactly.

Greg: So Debbie, you went to Turkey, and you stayed there quite a while. Walk us through that next phase—what happened after those first few years?

Debbie: I stayed in Turkey for eight years total. First, I was at Koç for five years teaching middle school Spanish. Then I moved to another school, Üsküdar American Academy, where I stayed for three more years.

Those years were incredible professionally. The students were amazing. I never thought I would see that level of engagement—students speaking Spanish, preparing for exams, and really succeeding. It was very rewarding.

But during that time, things in Turkey started to change politically. There were terrorist attacks, visas became more difficult, and there was a failed coup attempt while I was there.

There was this underlying tension in society. Even though daily life could feel normal, you could sense that the government was very present—in education, in society, everywhere.

My family started asking me if it was time to consider leaving. And I started thinking the same thing. I had been there eight years, and I thought if I stayed longer, it might become too comfortable.

Greg: That’s a real thing—getting too comfortable.

Debbie: Exactly. I loved everything about Turkey—the culture, the people, the food—but I felt like if I didn’t leave then, I might not leave at all.

So I talked to my director and was very honest. I said I loved the school, loved the students, but I felt the tension and wanted to explore other opportunities.

He was incredibly supportive. He said, “Go to the job fair. If you find something, great. If not, we’re happy to keep you.”

Jacqueline: That’s the dream scenario.

Debbie: Yes, but it made me more anxious. I couldn’t sleep at the job fair because there was no pressure. I already had a job, so I kept asking myself, why am I even here?

Greg: That’s ironic.

Debbie: It was. I was more anxious than if I had needed a job.

So I started interviewing. One of the first schools I interviewed with was in Myanmar. Honestly, it was at the bottom of my list.

Greg: Of course it was.

Debbie: Exactly. And then they offered me a job.

I asked for more time because I had other schools I was interested in, but they were taking longer to respond. The director in Myanmar was very patient with me.

In the end, I signed the contract on the last day of the job fair.

Greg: I love that story because it proves you shouldn’t write off places.

Debbie: Exactly. It wasn’t even on my radar, and it turned out to be one of the most important experiences of my life.

Greg: So you arrive in Myanmar—what was that like?

Debbie: The preparation before arrival was incredible. There was a teacher, Graham, who organized everything for the new hires. He created a Facebook group, answered questions, shared information—even things we didn’t think to ask, like what plugs looked like or what the rainy season was like.

By the time I arrived, I felt like I already knew him.

When I landed, I remember looking out the window and thinking, “What have I done?”

Greg: That moment hits everyone.

Debbie: Yes. But then I saw Graham at the airport waving, and it immediately felt okay.

He and my principal were there waiting for me. That welcome made such a difference.

Jacqueline: That airport arrival is such a powerful moment.

Debbie: It really is. And I loved it so much that I later joined the welcoming committee myself to help new teachers.

Greg: That’s paying it forward.

Debbie: Exactly.

Greg: So how long were you in Myanmar?

Debbie: Five years. And those five years were intense. I was there for COVID and for a coup.

Greg: Of course you were.

Debbie: Yes. COVID hit first, and Myanmar had very limited medical infrastructure. There were only a few ventilators in the whole country, so the government took things very seriously.

I decided to stay in the country during that time, while many colleagues left. It was a difficult decision, but I felt safe and supported by the school.

At the same time, it was emotionally hard. People were losing jobs, leaving the country, and I felt like I was gaining financially because I had nowhere to spend money.

That was a strange feeling.

Greg: That’s a tough emotional space.

Debbie: It really was. And then, after COVID, the coup happened.

We woke up one day and saw that the leader had been arrested. There was a lot of uncertainty. We didn’t know if the internet would stay on, if we should stock up on food, or what was going to happen.

Greg: That kind of uncertainty is exhausting.

Debbie: Exactly. Even when nothing happens, the preparation and stress take a toll.

Then protests started—peaceful at first, then more violent. We heard gunshots. People were striking. Banks ran out of money. There was no cash available.

The school even struggled to pay salaries at one point.

Greg: That’s intense.

Debbie: It was. But through all of that, being with the students was incredibly meaningful. We had students from different backgrounds—even military families and non-military families—learning together.

In the middle of all that tension, seeing them together gave me hope.

Greg: That’s powerful.

Debbie: It really was one of the most rewarding and most difficult years of my career.

Greg: So after Myanmar, how did you end up in Nigeria?

Debbie: After everything that happened in Myanmar, I felt like I needed a change. It was a very intense experience, and I wanted something different, both professionally and personally.

So I went back on the job market. This time, I was much more open-minded. Myanmar had taught me that sometimes the places you least expect can be the most rewarding.

I interviewed with a few schools, and Nigeria came up. Abuja wasn’t necessarily on my original list, but I was curious.

Greg: That seems to be a theme.

Debbie: Yes, definitely. And the more I learned about the school and the community, the more interested I became.

Kent: What stood out to you about the school?

Debbie: The sense of community. After Myanmar, I realized how important it is to feel supported—not just professionally, but personally.

The school in Abuja really emphasized that. They talked a lot about collaboration, support systems, and taking care of teachers.

Jacqueline: That’s huge.

Debbie: It really is. So I accepted the position and moved to Nigeria.

Greg: And how has that transition been compared to your previous moves?

Debbie: Honestly, much smoother. I think experience helps. After moving so many times, you learn how to adapt faster.

Also, I arrived with a different mindset. I wasn’t comparing it to previous places as much. I was just open to the experience.

Kent: That’s a big shift.

Debbie: Yes. And the school has been very supportive. The onboarding process was well organized, and the community made it easy to settle in.

Greg: What about life outside of school?

Debbie: Abuja is very different from the other places I’ve lived. It’s quieter than somewhere like Shanghai, but it has its own rhythm.

There are challenges, of course, but there’s also a strong expat community, and people look out for each other.

Jacqueline: That sense of community keeps coming up.

Debbie: Yes, and after everything in Myanmar, that’s something I really value.

Greg: So looking back on your entire journey—from Brazil to the U.S., Turkey, Myanmar, and now Nigeria—what stands out the most to you?

Debbie: The people. Everywhere I’ve been, it’s the people who made the experience meaningful.

The students, the colleagues, the friendships—it’s what stays with you.

Kent: That’s a great takeaway.

Debbie: And also resilience. You learn how much you can handle and how adaptable you really are.

Greg: That’s something every international teacher learns.

Debbie: Exactly.

Greg: If someone is listening and thinking about going international, what would you say to them?

Debbie: I would say go for it. It’s not always easy, but it’s worth it.

Be open, be flexible, and don’t be afraid of the unknown. Some of the best experiences come from the places you didn’t plan for.

Jacqueline: That’s perfect.

Greg: Debbie, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story.

Debbie: Thank you for having me. It was really nice to talk about it.

Kent: And thanks to our listeners for tuning in. We’ll see you next time on the International Teacher Podcast.