ITP - 49: The New Normal Stories from International Teachers

Greg: Welcome to the International Teacher Podcast with your hosts Matt, the family guy; Kent, the cat guy; and me, Greg, the single guy. We are recording episodes from around the globe to tell you about the best-kept secret in education.

That’s right—it’s teaching overseas. We’re glad to have you join us.

All right, welcome to this episode of the International Teacher Podcast. This is Greg, the single guy. I believe Matt, the family guy, is not here. We have a different Matt today—we’ll introduce him in just a second—and we have Kent, the cat guy.

Kent, I am so excited about this episode. You know why?

Kent: Why are you excited, Greg?

Greg: Because I think these guys are new guests who coined the phrase “The New Normal” before COVID. I’m telling everybody that. They have a book—they actually have two books out—and I think they have a third on the way.

This is Matt and Kevin. They’re coming to us respectively from Thailand, where Matt is, and Kevin is dialing in from Spain. So welcome to the show, guys.

Matt: Thank you. It’s great to be here.

Kevin: Thanks. Glad to be here.

Greg: Tell us where you both are from originally.

Kevin: I’m originally from a small town south of Nashville in Tennessee, and I’ve been teaching overseas for 16 of the last 20 years.

Matt: And I’m from Chicago. I’ve been overseas for the last 15 years, teaching for 14 of those, and I’m currently enjoying a gap year.

Greg: So take me back a bit. Kevin, you’re living in Tennessee, you become a teacher—what are you teaching then?

Kevin: I actually first started teaching in Texas. I went to grad school in California, then moved to Houston for four years. There, I was teaching a little bit of everything—seven classes out of eight each day, 46-minute classes. I taught first through seventh periods and had eighth period off.

First period was middle school boys’ basketball, and then second through seventh was geography, history, and humanities in different combinations.

Greg: Matt, what did you start off teaching?

Matt: I started in the year 2000 teaching fourth grade in a suburb of Chicago. Then a good friend of mine, Craig Tafel—he’s an international teacher at the Shanghai American School—started telling me about teaching internationally.

He said, imagine taking our current school, picking it up, and placing it in the middle of a rice field in China. You’d have this amazing, well-resourced school, you’d be doing the same job, making great money, traveling the world, and meeting like-minded people.

That’s how I got started on the journey in 2008.

Greg: Kevin, what drove you to pack your bags and check out the world?

Kevin: There were a few things. I was teaching in Houston but hadn’t finished my degree in California. When I went back to graduate, I met two people within a month who were teaching overseas—one in Shanghai and one in a Department of Defense school in Frankfurt.

Within that month, I realized I could do what I was doing in the U.S. overseas. The next February, I was at a job fair in Iowa.

Greg: That’s exactly why we call this the best-kept secret in education. It really is a secret, and you guys have been doing it ever since.

Matt: Yeah, once we made the move, we stayed overseas for well over a decade.

Greg: That’s a whole other conversation—moving back. Kent, I can see you’ve got a question.

Kent: Your journey sounds similar to mine. I was working at the Pacific Science Center in Seattle in 2000, and someone who had taught in Kuwait told me about it. That idea stuck with me for about seven years before I finally made the move.

Matt: That’s exactly how it was for me. When my friend moved, he told me to get a passport. I didn’t even have one—I was 23, just starting my first teaching job.

I started traveling and felt alive. Every time he came home, he shared more stories about travel and teaching overseas. It took me about seven years to finally make the leap, but I haven’t looked back since.

Greg: Kevin, tell us some of the countries and schools you’ve worked in.

Kevin: I started at the Country Day School in San José, Costa Rica, then Korea International School in South Korea, then AIS Guangzhou in China. The last five years before this gap year, I was at the Lincoln School in Buenos Aires.

Greg: Matt, how about you?

Matt: I started at Korea International School, where I met Kevin. Then I went to St. Andrew’s School in Rayong, Thailand, then Medellín, Colombia for five years, and then Shanghai American School for five years before my gap year. Next year, I’m heading to Santiago, Chile.

Greg: Wow. That’s quite a journey already.

Greg: All right, can I get to go now? I’ve been doing a nice, formal interview for both of you guys. I’m a little bit more off the cuff. I reached out to both of you because I had read both your books. Your first one came out in 2017, am I correct?

Matt: Yes, that’s right.

Greg: And then you published your second, and all of the proceeds go to Children of Haiti. Am I correct?

Matt: That’s correct.

Greg: Excellent. How did you guys choose Haiti as the place to share the proceeds from your book sales?

Matt: A couple of summers, I was going to the PTC in Miami—the Principals’ Training Center—getting a certificate in international leadership. I met Bambi Betts, who started PTC and, I believe, also TIE Online, which you guys have talked about before.

She was talking about this Children of Haiti project. They were looking for schools that might be interested in doing philanthropic work or sponsoring students through a school in Haiti that they started.

Kevin and I talked about it, and we thought it was a great cause. It was also a very reputable group of international educators doing meaningful work. I have to give Kevin all the credit here—he was the one who had the idea of finding a way for us to give back.

Kevin: We’ve both really enjoyed collecting stories separately. We love storytelling—both oral and written—and we wanted to capture people’s experiences overseas.

Even though putting the books together was a lot of work, it gave us an excuse to connect regularly while living in different countries. More importantly, it allowed us to collect these stories and know that the money would go to something beyond us.

Greg: So Kevin, when did you and Matt meet, and where were you teaching together?

Kevin: We met in 2008 at Korea International School. It was a growing school at the time with a new campus, and there were about 50 new teachers from around the world.

Matt and I ended up in the same building and hit it off right away.

Greg: I love that story because it’s similar to how Matt, the family guy, and I met. We met in Venezuela, then went off in different directions, and later connected again. That’s what this lifestyle does—it creates these global connections.

When I opened your book, The New Normal, I saw a quote that really stood out: “Each tale provides several brush strokes on a canvas that, by the time you finish reading, represents real lives of many teaching abroad.”

I think that perfectly captures what your book does.

Kevin: That’s exactly what we were aiming for.

Greg: And right after the introduction, I noticed something really meaningful—you both included pictures with your fathers. Kevin, your dad had a shirt that said, “The truly educated never graduate.”

Kevin: Yes, that was my dad. Between the first and second books, both of our fathers passed away. So we honored them in the second book.

My dad loved learning, and that quote really captured who he was. It’s something I try to emulate, and now I even have a shirt with that phrase. My students see it and understand how important that idea is to me.

Matt: And my dad had a Cubs shirt on—and a hat that said “Damn Seagulls.” He got that in Florida. It’s a very different vibe from Kevin’s dad’s shirt, but it fits him perfectly.

Greg: Those are great memories. And it really shows how much family influences who we are as teachers.

Let’s talk about the process. How did you bring these books together?

Kevin: The idea started when I was living in China and Matt was in Colombia. I visited him during Chinese New Year, and we were just sitting on a balcony talking about all the stories we had—and the stories our friends had.

We thought, “Wouldn’t it be great to put all of these in one place?” The next day, we came back to the idea and decided to actually do it.

That was in February 2016. By April 2017, the first book was published. It took about a year to collect, edit, and organize everything into both paperback and Kindle formats.

Then we did it again in 2018, and the second book came out in 2019.

Greg: That’s impressive. Matt, you didn’t write all the stories—how did you get people to submit them?

Matt: The first book was harder. People thought it was a cool idea, but they weren’t sure we’d actually follow through. Everyone likes telling stories, but writing them down is another matter.

We ended up with about 35 stories in the first book. For the second book, we had so many submissions that we had to turn some people away.

Once people saw the first book was real—and that it supported a good cause—they were much more willing to contribute.

Greg: That makes sense.

Greg: Let me list some of the countries for our listeners that were in your first book, just to get them interested. These stories come from places like Chile, China, Venezuela, Mongolia, Nicaragua, Albania, Brazil, Honduras, Hungary, Bolivia, Thailand, the UAE, Mexico, Lithuania, Belarus, Egypt, Turkey, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Pakistan, Jordan, New York, Colombia, Korea—and even someone who didn’t claim a home country after being overseas so long.

That’s just from your first book, and many of those aren’t repeated in the second book.

Kent: That’s incredible.

Greg: I have a feeling you’re going to get flooded with stories if we promote this.

Matt: We actually already started getting submissions after the second book. We had a link on our website where people could send stories in.

Kevin: Even if a third book isn’t immediate, we’d love to keep collecting stories. We think it’s very likely there will be another one in the future.

Greg: Quick question—what makes a good story?

Matt: It doesn’t have to be the most dramatic event. It’s about how you tell it—how you set the stage and bring it to life.

Most stories happen in places unfamiliar to readers, so painting a clear picture of the setting and culture is really important.

Kevin: I agree. Some of the best stories are simple. In the second book, there’s one about a man buying a rug—it’s not dramatic, but the way it’s written makes it powerful.

People sometimes try to include too many details without focusing on what others are thinking or feeling. Slowing down and adding that inner perspective makes a story stronger.

Greg: I like that—it doesn’t have to be a Hollywood story. It can be something from daily life that others wouldn’t experience.

Matt: Exactly. These are living stories, not just travel stories.

Greg: Have other colleagues helped with the books?

Kevin: Yes. There’s a group of us who taught together in Korea, and we meet regularly. One colleague, Ken Turner, helped a lot with editing, especially on the second book.

Matt: And we also had help with the cover art. A colleague in Colombia created the original design, and students helped digitize it. For the second book, a cartoonist—an international teacher’s spouse—created the artwork.

Kevin: We also had a friend in the U.S. review the first draft to check formatting, margins, and layout. That was really helpful.

Greg: Was publishing harder than you expected?

Kevin: It was more of a learning process than anything. Some parts, like waiting for submissions and editing, took longer than expected, but overall it was manageable.

Matt: The timeline of about a year per book was pretty accurate.

Greg: One thing I’ve realized from writing is how powerful the process is—drafting, revising, getting feedback. It’s something we teach students, but you really understand it when you go through it yourself.

Matt: Absolutely. At my last school in Shanghai, the books were even sold in the school store. Students loved seeing their teachers’ stories and understanding the writing process.

Greg: That’s fantastic.

Greg: We’ll take a moment to remind listeners how to reach out to us. You can find us on Instagram and Twitter at ITPExpats, or email us at [internationalteacherpodcast@gmail.com](mailto:internationalteacherpodcast@gmail.com). You can also visit our website.

Back to the show—have you ever run into someone who submitted a story to you that you didn’t know personally?

Kevin: Yes. I was moving from China to Argentina and getting my visa sorted out. I started talking to a woman who had just moved internationally again. She mentioned this book she had read about international teaching—The New Normal—and how much she loved it.

I told her, “I’m Kevin Duncan. I’m one of the people who put that book together.” It was a fun moment because she had no idea who I was when she started telling me about it.

Matt: I had a similar experience in Hong Kong. I was on a junk boat with some friends and mentioned that I had just published our second book but hadn’t seen a physical copy yet.

One of the people on the boat pulled out the book and said, “Is this it?” She had just bought it and brought it with her. So the first time I saw the book in person was from someone else who had purchased it.

Greg: That’s amazing. Those are great moments.

Greg: We’ve been working on this podcast for a couple of years now, and I’ve seen the process of creating something like this. What have you learned about each other while working on these books?

Matt: One thing I’ve learned about Kevin is that he’s incredibly easy to work with. We wrote both books from opposite sides of the world—Colombia and China for the first, then we switched continents.

His attention to detail and ability to stick to timelines is impressive. He kept us on track even when I wanted to slow things down.

Kevin: Matt’s being generous, but we do work well together. We communicate clearly and divide responsibilities effectively.

For example, with the second book, we had more submissions than we could include. We anonymized the stories and had a committee of about 15 people read and rate them.

That way, the selection process was fair. Some friends’ stories didn’t make it, and some from people we didn’t know did.

Matt handled organizing that process, which was a big task.

Greg: That’s a great system.

Greg: One thing I appreciate is that your books aren’t about you—they’re about the collective experience of international teachers.

Matt: Exactly. We just helped organize the stories.

Greg: Let’s shift gears a bit. I want to play a quick game. Each of us will tell a short story based on a country someone else chooses.

Kevin, you’re in Spain—do you have a story about Italy?

Kevin: Yes. I went to Florence with two friends. One of them went ahead to Venice and sent pictures home claiming he had met Julia Roberts on the street. Everyone believed him.

When we finally went to Venice, we only had about 15 minutes before catching the next train. I took a picture, grabbed some gelato, and left. So technically, I’ve been to Venice—but only for 15 minutes.

Greg: That counts.

Greg: Kent, how about Japan for Matt?

Matt: Sure. Before I moved overseas, I was selected for a Japan Fulbright program. They took us around Japan for three weeks—everything paid for.

At one point, they found out I loved baseball and had me take batting practice with a high school team. It was incredible. That experience convinced me to move overseas for good.

Greg: That’s a great story.

Greg: All right, Egypt for me. I climbed Mount Sinai overnight and watched the sunrise. On the way down, we took camels. The saddle was incredibly uncomfortable, so I ended up turning around and sitting backward just to make it bearable.

Everyone laughed, but it worked.

Greg: Kent, you’re up—Turkey.

Kent: I had a run-in with a common shoe-shining scam. Someone dropped a brush in front of me, expecting me to pick it up so they could offer a “free” shine and then charge me.

I tried to avoid it, but in doing so, I nearly caused the guy to stumble into traffic. He was fine, but I felt pretty bad about it afterward.

Greg: These are the kinds of stories your books capture—real, everyday experiences.

Greg: I love these kinds of stories. They’re just a glimpse, but they capture what it’s like to actually live abroad—not just travel.

I can’t imagine organizing something like that on stage, though. Thinking about the beginning, the ending, and all the details in between.

Matt: It’s definitely a different experience. There’s a lot of adrenaline, but once you get started, it feels natural because you’re just reliving something that actually happened.

Kevin: And the audience is usually very supportive. Even if you forget something or stumble, it doesn’t really matter. It’s about sharing the story.

Greg: That’s a great point.

Greg: Before we wrap up, I want to challenge you guys to check out a site called Educators Going Global. They collect short video stories from international teachers. It might be something you’d enjoy contributing to.

Kevin: That sounds interesting.

Greg: All right, final thoughts. What would you like listeners to take away from your books?

Kevin: I’d say we really appreciate everyone who contributed stories. Matt and I were more organizers than anything else. The real value of the books comes from the people who shared their experiences.

Some stories are lighthearted, some are emotional, but they all reflect what it’s like to live and teach overseas.

Matt: And one thing we noticed is that everyone connects with different stories. What stands out to one reader might be completely different for someone else, depending on their own experiences.

That’s been one of the most rewarding parts—seeing how people relate to different pieces of the book.

Greg: I think that’s what makes it so powerful.

Greg: Thank you both for coming on the show. We really appreciate it.

Kevin: Thank you for having us.

Matt: Thanks—it was great to be here.

Kent: Thanks again, guys. We really appreciate it.

Greg: And to our listeners, thanks for joining us. We’ll see you next time.