ITP - 45: Working with Classroom Data

Greg: Hey, welcome to the International Teacher Podcast. I am Kent, the cat guy, and with me tonight is Greg, the single guy, and our special guest is Matthew Courtney—we could call him the stats guy. Welcome, Matt.

Matthew: Hi guys, thanks for having me today.

Greg: Great, thank you for joining us.

Kent: Hey Matthew, where are you coming in from?

Matthew: I’m coming in from Frankfort, Kentucky in the United States.

Kent: Is that where you’re from?

Matthew: Yeah.

Greg: Wow. Tell us a little bit about growing up in Kentucky. Is it Appalachia? I’m not that familiar with Kentucky—tell our listeners a little bit about your background.

Matthew: Kentucky is a beautiful state. I’ve lived here all my life. We say we’re at sort of the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains, so the eastern part of our state is some beautiful mountain territory. The western part of our state is more flat—a lot of farmland. We’re known for horses and bourbon here in Kentucky, so always down for a good time and a horse race.

Kent: Horses and bourbon at the same time?

Matthew: Absolutely. The two industries are very well combined. They go great together.

Greg: So what did you do after high school?

Matthew: After high school, I went to university for my undergraduate degree. My plan originally was to become a musicologist. I have an undergraduate degree in music and was going to go to grad school to study music and write papers. But along the way, I student taught and got a teaching license, and I fell in love with education.

I remember being on the phone with my advisor one day after school, and my whole career trajectory changed. I never looked back. So I’ve been a music teacher, I’ve worked in the nonprofit sector, I’ve worked in state government, and of course in schools. I’m an educator through and through.

Greg: What’s your main instrument these days?

Matthew: Mostly piano, but through school I played trumpet and French horn. My undergraduate degree is actually in French horn.

Greg: That’s amazing. I had a music teacher in college—Mad Dog Cappy—who was a French horn player.

Kent: Did you teach French horn?

Matthew: No, I taught elementary general music and choir.

Greg: Oh, bless you. I had to sub in music recently, and it was one of the hardest experiences I’ve ever had. Trying to teach music to kindergarteners for 40 minutes—I mean, I can play a couple of chords, I can use a recorder, but they don’t care.

I gave them boomwhackers—those plastic sticks—and they were like, “You don’t even know what they’re called.” It was chaos for 40 minutes.

Kent: But you’re entertaining us right now.

Greg: Not to kindergarteners. It was a disaster. So respect to all elementary music teachers.

Greg: Now connect the dots for us. You were teaching elementary music, but now you’re a published author in education statistics. How did that happen?

Matthew: For me, it’s really a journey of school improvement—thinking about how we do school better and work smarter, not harder.

While I was earning my graduate degrees, I taught at the same time. I remember sitting in professional learning community meetings and faculty meetings, looking at data and kind of bluffing my way through. I’d say, “Yeah, that makes sense,” but I didn’t really know what I was talking about.

So in grad school, I decided I needed to really learn this and stop bluffing. That’s when I started to understand the role that data and research can play in driving school improvement—from the classroom level all the way up to the state level.

Greg: So your journey into statistics really started in graduate school?

Matthew: Yes. I took the standard education stats classes, but a lot of my learning came from outside that—online courses, books, YouTube videos.

In class, you learn the theory, but not always how to apply it. I wanted to know when to use different tests, when to use mean versus median—that kind of thing.

I also looked at how industries like Google and Amazon use data. They have great free resources, and that really changed my perspective.

Kent: You’re an author now, with two books out. Your most recent one, Adventures in Action Research, seems geared toward teachers. Is that your target audience?

Matthew: Yes, both of my books are primarily for classroom teachers, though administrators can use them as well.

I believe that when teachers learn to harness data and evaluation techniques, they can solve their own problems in real time and make better instructional decisions.

An evidence-informed educator is an empowered educator. My work focuses on helping teachers take the data they already collect and actually use it.

Greg: As a homeroom teacher, I was very data-driven. I liked being able to show where students were and where they needed to go.

But you’re talking about more than just standardized testing—you’re talking about classroom data too.

Matthew: Exactly. We spend too much time focused on standardized tests. They have a role, but teachers collect massive amounts of data every day that often goes unused.

My books are process-oriented. They walk you step by step—collect the data, input it, interpret it, and act on it.

Adventures in Action Research is structured like a choose-your-own-adventure book, where you follow different paths depending on your situation.

Exploratory Data Analysis in the Classroom includes vignettes and downloadable spreadsheets so teachers can follow along and practice.

Greg: Where do those examples come from?

Matthew: They all come from real classrooms. I’ve worked with schools as a consultant and in formal coaching roles. These are real scenarios, just anonymized.

The books actually started as training materials I used in schools. Then I realized I could expand them to help more teachers.

Greg: You mentioned earlier that teachers often struggle with data. Why do you think that is?

Matthew: There are a few reasons. First, teachers have had a lot of bad professional development experiences. That creates resistance.

Second, most statistics training is out of context. Many teachers learn using examples from medicine or social services, which don’t translate well to the classroom.

And third, data has often been used to punish rather than support. That creates fear and frustration.

We need to shift to a continuous improvement mindset—data is just information. It’s neutral. It’s there to help us improve.

Greg: That’s a powerful shift in thinking.

Greg: A big part of our listenership, Matthew, is overseas. A lot of our teachers are just like teachers in the States—we have our classes, our meetings, and not always access to strong professional development.

So what I love hearing you say is that this is for the classroom teacher. Someone like Kent can go to your website, read your books, watch your videos, and actually apply it directly.

I remember collecting data in my classroom—simple things like who likes who. I had 17 kids, and I asked each one who their friends were and who they didn’t connect with. I mapped it out into a matrix.

That was data. But then the question becomes—what do you do with it? How do you make that actionable to improve your classroom?

Matthew: That’s a great example. That’s actually a research method called social network analysis. You created that on your own, and it had value. But if you combine that with research-based strategies, you can go even deeper.

My goal is to help teachers take what they’re already doing and expand it with proven methods.

I worked with a kindergarten teacher recently who had a student struggling with potty training. It was causing disruption in the classroom.

She had tried everything. There was no medical issue, but it was still a challenge. We dug into research together, and she created an intervention plan.

She solved the problem using data and research—no extra funding, no outside support. She improved her classroom and helped that student in a meaningful way.

Kent: That’s powerful. But not everyone will have immediate success like that. It sounds like your books provide a process to help teachers build that mindset over time.

Greg: Can I share a quick story? This reminded me of something.

Matthew: Please do.

Greg: I was teaching preschool, and all the kids called me “Mr. Chicken.” They were playing with blocks, and this little girl came up to me and said, “Guess what, Mr. Chicken? I fart when I laugh.”

I started laughing, and then she laughed—and sure enough, it happened. Then she told another kid, “Hey, I just tooted.”

It was one of those moments where you realize—this is real teaching. These are the things we deal with every day.

Matthew: Every teacher has those moments.

Greg: Exactly. It brings you back to reality.

Greg: We’ll take a quick break to remind you how to reach out to us. You can address any negative comments to Kent, the cat guy. We’d love to hear from you.

You can find us on Instagram and Twitter at ITPexpats, email us at [internationalteacherpodcast@gmail.com](mailto:internationalteacherpodcast@gmail.com), or visit our website at itpexpat.com.

Greg: All right, back to the conversation.

Kent: Let me jump in here. Matthew, let’s say you’ve done a PD session with me. I’m a fourth-grade teacher, and I’d describe myself as data-hesitant.

We use standardized tests, and sometimes it feels like a black box—you send data in, and something comes back, but you don’t really understand the process.

So what would you say to someone like me?

Matthew: I like that term—data-hesitant. I think a lot of teachers feel that way.

The skills I teach are not advanced. They’re basic, entry-level data skills using spreadsheets. And the key is—they work across platforms. Excel, Google Sheets, Numbers—it doesn’t matter.

If you can learn a handful of these skills, you can analyze any dataset.

The problem with standardized testing platforms is that each one has its own system. You spend hours learning each one separately.

Instead, I teach a universal process. Export the data, put it in a spreadsheet, and analyze it yourself.

I call it having a conversation with the data. You’re looking for anomalies—things that are higher or lower than expected.

Once you find those anomalies, you act on them.

Kent: That sounds much more efficient.

Matthew: It is. One set of skills that works across everything you use.

Greg: What kind of feedback do you get from teachers?

Matthew: A lot of them say, “I thought this would be harder.” There’s a perception that data analysis is complex, but for classroom use, it doesn’t have to be.

We’re talking about averages, counts, simple comparisons—basic math skills.

Teachers don’t need advanced statistics to make meaningful changes in their classrooms.

Greg: That’s reassuring for a lot of people.

Greg: It’s really helpful to hear you say that because a lot of us hear the word “data” and immediately want to run the other direction. It feels like another meeting, another training, another thing we don’t fully understand.

From a classroom perspective, I’ve had parents come in after a single data point—one MAP test—and ask how their child can improve. And my response is always, we need more data. We need to see growth over time, not just one snapshot.

Matthew: Exactly. Those kinds of assessments are diagnostic tools. They’re like going to the doctor. Your doctor doesn’t just look at one number in isolation—they compare it to what’s expected and what’s happened over time.

If something looks off, that’s when you dig deeper. Maybe it’s attendance, maybe it’s something happening outside of school, maybe it’s a learning need. But the key is identifying that anomaly and investigating it.

Greg: That makes a lot of sense.

Matthew: And the good news is, the math you need to do this is very basic. We’re talking about skills most students learn in elementary school—averages, counts, simple comparisons.

My goal is to make this accessible. That’s why my books are short, very direct, and step-by-step. Teachers don’t have time to read 500-page theory books.

Greg: Speaking of books, let me ask you this—can you actually make money writing education books, or is it more of a labor of love?

Matthew: For me, it’s a labor of love. I don’t make a lot of money from my books, but I get a lot out of the connections with teachers.

When you buy one of my books, you become part of my network. People reach out, ask questions, and I’m always happy to help. That’s the most rewarding part.

Greg: Let’s talk about your website because I spent some time on it. It’s clean, simple, easy to navigate—honestly, it made me want to redesign ours.

It’s very user-friendly, and everything is easy to find. I think that’s really important for teachers who don’t have a lot of time.

Matthew: Thank you. That’s very intentional. I design everything with cognitive load in mind. The material itself can be complex, so I try to reduce any unnecessary barriers.

Greg: It shows. And I want to highlight your repository section—there are tools there that teachers can use right away.

Matthew: Yes, I have several automated analysis tools that are free. You can upload a spreadsheet, and it will analyze the data for you.

There are tools for pre- and post-test analysis, data disaggregation, correlation matrices, and more. They’re designed to save teachers time.

Greg: And they’re fast—like, seconds.

Matthew: Exactly. That’s the goal.

Greg: I do have to ask—you’re known for wearing a bow tie. Is that part of your identity?

Matthew: It is. I don’t wear one at home, but when I’m out in the world, I almost always have a bow tie on. I’ve got a pretty large collection.

Greg: We might have to get you an ITP bow tie.

Kent: I’m not sure I could pull that off.

Greg: Matthew can. We’ll leave it to him.

Kent: Let me ask—do you get people reaching out from outside the U.S.?

Matthew: Yes, absolutely. I’ve worked with people from the UK, Australia, Latin America. The internet makes it easy to connect with educators everywhere.

Greg: That’s great because we have listeners in a lot of countries.

Kent: Any new projects coming up?

Matthew: I’m working on developing online courses based on my books—something affordable and accessible for teachers who don’t have access to professional development.

Greg: That will be huge for a lot of people.

Kent: Before we wrap up, I saw a couple of blog posts on your site that stood out—“Failure the Way to Continuous Improvement” and “An Evidence-Informed Educator is an Empowered Educator.”

Those ideas really connect with what you’ve been saying today.

Matthew: Absolutely. That’s the core of my work—helping teachers use data to improve, not to judge.

Greg: We usually ask for a police or customs story. Do you have one?

Matthew: I do. I was traveling to Canada for a conference and got stopped at customs because I had a box of Pop-Tarts in my bag. Apparently, they count as a pastry, and you’re not allowed to bring them across the border.

Greg: That’s a new one.

Kent: No Pop-Tarts in Canada.

Greg: Before we finish, any final thoughts for our listeners?

Matthew: Two things. First, work with data that works for you. If something doesn’t make sense, set it aside and find something that does.

Second, embrace what I call productive disequilibrium—that feeling of being slightly uncomfortable but moving forward. That’s where growth happens.

Greg: That’s a great way to end.

Kent: On behalf of Greg, the single guy, and myself, thank you to Matthew Courtney for joining us today.

Greg: Thanks for being here.

Matthew: Thank you.

Kent: We’ll see you next time.

Greg: See you next episode.