ITP - 41: Teaching in China and Building Dwight Schools

Kent: Hey, welcome to the International Teacher Podcast. Once again, I am Kent, the cat guy, and today with me is Greg, the single guy. We’re still looking out for Matt—he’s not here yet, but we’re going to get him back. We’ve got a great show today. I can’t wait to meet this guest because she’s exciting and brings a different flavor. She’s got a unique background, and I’m really looking forward to this conversation.

Greg: This might be the smartest guest we’ve ever had on the program. Her name is Brantley Turner, and I’m going to let her introduce herself to our audience. Brantley, tell us a few words about yourself.

Brantley: You’ve totally set me up with that “smartest guest” line. Now I’ve got to lower expectations.

Hi, I’m Brantley Turner. I’m joining you from New York today, but I’ve been a longtime resident of China—mainly Shanghai, but I’ve lived all over. I’m on my way to a new adventure in Vietnam, but I’m spending a year in the U.S. reconnecting, teaching this semester, and enjoying it. I’m really looking forward to chatting and having some fun today.

Greg: Before Kent talks too much, I’d love an elevator version of your journey into education and international work. Can you walk us through that?

Brantley: I came to education through a geographical interest—China. I first went to China in 1993, and what has now been a 30-year journey has been amazing. I really just rode the wave.

I had a lot of opportunities as a young person. I studied Mandarin in college, and I can speak, read, and write Chinese. That opened a lot of doors. I raised my hand for a lot of different opportunities and had a wide range of jobs in China—probably more than most people—just because I was there early.

I always wanted to work in education, but I also worked in advertising and market research, focusing on youth. When I first started working in China around 2000, it was mostly teaching English, which I did, but I wasn’t very good at it.

At the time, international schools were mainly for the children of foreign workers, and I didn’t have the credentials or the interest to go that route. My motivation was always geography, language, and culture.

In 2006, I started a nonprofit organization to bring students to China for experiential education. That’s how I met Dwight Schools. In 2008, we started a program in Beijing at Capital Normal High School.

That experience was amazing, and I decided to join Dwight full-time. I helped start the Shanghai campus and began working there in 2012. In 2014, we opened Shekou Dwight, which remains the only independent Sino-U.S. cooperatively run high school approved by the Ministry of Education in China.

I still work with Dwight. I’ve been posted to Dwight New York this year, and I’ll be moving to Vietnam to help launch Dwight School Hanoi.

Greg: Before we get into Dwight, I’m fascinated by how you became so interested in China at a young age. How did that happen?

Brantley: Honestly, I deserve no credit for that. When I was 17, I barely knew Beijing was the capital of China. I was focused on typical things for that time—the early internet, music, and just being a teenager.

My parents moved to Hong Kong for work. They’re from Alabama and Tennessee, and they never imagined they’d live in Hong Kong, but they ended up staying for 15 years.

I didn’t live there because I was in college, but suddenly my holidays were in Asia. That exposure changed everything. I got to experience China firsthand, and it sparked my interest.

I decided to get a credential to support that interest, so I joined a Johns Hopkins master’s program in Nanjing focused on Chinese foreign policy, taught in Chinese. Most people in that program went into law or government work, but I became an educator.

After that, I moved to Shanghai and never left.

Greg: It sounds like you also have a strong background in history, politics, and culture. Can you tell us more about that before we dive deeper into your education career?

Brantley: I didn’t approach Chinese language and culture from a purely practical perspective like, “This will get me a job.” I came from a liberal arts background, which gave me the space to explore different interests.

Whether it was architecture, art, history, or philosophy, everything kept leading back to China. Over time, I engaged with China on many different levels—not just the practical side, but also the human and cultural aspects.

As I grew older, China was changing rapidly. It was an optimistic place to be—full of energy, movement, and opportunity. That’s something I’ve always been drawn to.

The pandemic has added complexity, both domestically in China and globally, but overall, my experience has been incredibly positive. I’ve met amazing people and worked with incredible students. It’s been a real privilege.

Greg: What kind of people and organization does it take to become the only recognized joint-venture school approved by the Ministry of Education?

Brantley: It started with Qi Bao High School, one of the top public high schools in Shanghai. Their chairman recognized the opportunity to create something new but knew he needed a partner.

This happened at a moment in time when China had introduced the cooperatively run education law. Universities like NYU Shanghai and Duke Kunshan were being established, and there was an opportunity to extend that model to high schools.

Through a series of developments, Dwight partnered with Qi Bao High School to create something unique. Our students follow the IB Diploma Program while also meeting Chinese national curriculum requirements.

They take exams in language, history, politics, and geography alongside IB courses. It’s a demanding system, and students need to be strong in both Chinese and English.

Greg: So they’re essentially operating in two systems at once.

Brantley: Exactly. Many students haven’t been exposed to inquiry-based learning before, so they have to adapt quickly. But they’re incredibly capable. They can handle complexity and conflicting ideas in a way that’s really impressive.

Greg: That’s fascinating.

Greg: I want to read something that was sent to me before our interview because I think it really captures what you’re doing. It says that you’re committed to restless innovation, leadership, school improvement, and cutting-edge arts programs that drive student outcomes unmatched in China. It also mentions that your school is used as an example for policymaking in Beijing.

I mean, I’m sitting here thinking—I’m just an international teacher. That’s impressive.

Brantley: I hope you feel good about that. That was very well written, whoever put that together.

Greg: So what kind of teachers are you looking for? Do you recruit actively?

Brantley: Yes, absolutely. In China, we’re focused on high school and the IB Diploma Program, so we’re working with very strong students.

What we’re really looking for are people who are committed—people who can support students as they transition into inquiry-based learning, often for the first time.

I always describe our work as “bridge in, bridge out.” We’re there to learn from the local context just as much as we are to bring in international pedagogy.

It’s important to be clear—international education is not the westernization of education. That mindset doesn’t work. You have to be adaptable and willing to understand the culture you’re working in.

Greg: That’s a huge point.

Brantley: It really is. People who come in thinking they’re the expert and know everything don’t tend to succeed. It’s about adaptation and understanding.

We look for people with strong foundations—licensed teachers, sometimes IB experience, but we’ve also trained teachers who didn’t have IB backgrounds.

In China, we’ve had some flexibility with visas, which has allowed us to bring in people from non-traditional pathways, including people like me.

Greg: And what about Vietnam?

Brantley: In Vietnam, we’re building the team now. We’re hiring leadership first—deputy head of school, lower school head—and then expanding from there.

We’re planning to open in 2024 with early childhood through upper school, so there will be a lot of opportunities.

Greg: That’s exciting.

Brantley: It is. And in New York, things are a bit different due to visa constraints, so we’re primarily hiring U.S.-based educators there.

Greg: One thing that stood out to me earlier—you said international education is not westernization. So what makes a teacher successful in your system?

Brantley: It comes down to open-mindedness, flexibility, and agility. Those are global skills.

There are strong teacher training programs all over the world—U.S., UK, New Zealand, India—and they share common standards and ethics.

For us, it’s about values. What energy do you bring to your work? Do you care about students? Are you willing to grow?

Teaching is incredibly hard, and it’s often underestimated. So we look for people who can stay motivated and engaged despite the challenges.

Greg: So you’re really looking for the person, not just the qualifications.

Brantley: Exactly.

Greg: That’s refreshing to hear.

Greg: Let’s talk about your role over the years. You’ve clearly worn a lot of hats within Dwight. What has that journey looked like for you?

Brantley: I started out working with Dwight as a partner—bringing students to China for experiential learning trips. These were short-term programs, often during spring break, where students could come and see China firsthand.

That started around 2008, which was an exciting time. It was the year of the Beijing Olympics, and there was a lot of global interest in China. Shanghai Expo was coming up, and there was a real push to understand what was happening in the country.

From there, I became more involved in supporting Dwight’s Mandarin program and helping facilitate relationships in Beijing. Initially, that work was very practical—translation, communication, coordination—but over time, it expanded.

I worked closely with curriculum leaders, college counselors, and school leadership. I learned a lot just by being in those spaces and observing how strong educators operate.

Eventually, I became the founding American principal of the Shanghai school and later served on the governing board. That was my main role for about ten years.

Now, my title is Director of East Asia Education for Dwight, which involves connecting different parts of the organization and sharing best practices, particularly across Asia.

Greg: That’s an incredible progression.

Greg: Let me ask you something we hear a lot—even from experienced teachers. When people list places they want to teach, China often gets left off or comes with hesitation.

What do you say to people who have doubts or preconceived ideas about China?

Brantley: The first thing I say is that China is a huge country. It’s like asking about teaching in the United States—where you are matters a lot.

Teaching in Shanghai is very different from teaching in a rural area. There are coastal cities, major urban centers, and more nature-focused regions. The experience varies widely.

Most people start by looking at practical factors—job availability and salary. There are a lot of opportunities in China, and the packages can be very competitive.

But beyond that, you have to think about your lifestyle preferences. Do you want a big city? A quieter environment? Access to nature?

Another important factor is the students. Many teachers report very positive experiences with student motivation, classroom behavior, and family support.

Greg: That’s something we hear often.

Brantley: Yes, there’s a strong respect for education. Families are deeply invested in their children’s success.

At the same time, I encourage people to separate media narratives from day-to-day life. High-level political discussions don’t necessarily impact your daily experience as a teacher.

That said, the pandemic has made things more complicated, especially with border restrictions. So I tell people to stay informed, be patient, and keep an open mind.

Greg: That’s a very balanced perspective.

Greg: Let’s pause for a moment and remind listeners how to reach out to us. You can find us on Instagram and Twitter at ITPexpats, email us at [internationalteacherpodcast@gmail.com](mailto:internationalteacherpodcast@gmail.com), or visit our website.

Greg: All right, back to the show.

Greg: I heard a statistic once that there are more students graduating high school each year in China than there are total high school students in the United States.

It really highlights how massive the system is.

Brantley: Exactly. Scale is something people often underestimate.

Greg: And people hear about cities like Shanghai or Beijing and assume that’s all there is, but it’s so much more diverse than that.

Brantley: Absolutely.

Greg: I actually have a quick story about Shanghai. I visited for a conference and tried to order food without speaking any Chinese. It didn’t go smoothly.

Brantley: That’s part of the experience.

Greg: It definitely was.

Greg: One thing I always tell people is to go see a place for yourself before making a judgment. That’s something you mentioned earlier—just go check it out.

Brantley: Exactly. That’s always been my message. You don’t have to agree with everything or change your values, but you should be informed.

Understanding major global players and relationships is important, especially as educators. If you have the opportunity to experience a place like China firsthand, it’s worth doing.

Greg: That’s a great way to look at it.

Greg: Let me ask you this—if someone wants to learn more about China before going, is there a book, film, or resource you’d recommend?

Brantley: That’s a tough question because there’s so much out there. I actually tend to recommend following journalists and current voices rather than relying on a single book.

There’s a lot being written about China every day, and perspectives can vary widely depending on the source.

I’d suggest looking at writers like Jim McGregor, Evan Osnos, and Peter Hessler. They offer thoughtful and balanced perspectives.

It’s also important to read voices from within China, not just Western perspectives.

Greg: That’s really helpful.

Greg: Let’s shift to your next big project—Vietnam. What can you tell us about that?

Brantley: We’re launching Dwight School Hanoi. It’s a really exciting project. We’re working with a strong team and have already begun construction.

For me, this is a big transition. I had a long and meaningful run in China. I founded a school there, built a life, and it was very difficult to step away from that.

But I believe in growth and in allowing organizations to evolve beyond their founders. It’s important to let the next generation take over.

Greg: That’s not easy to do.

Brantley: It’s not. But it’s necessary.

For Vietnam, we’re building a full continuum school—early childhood through upper school. We’ll pursue IB authorization, but that takes time, so we’re just getting started.

Greg: What drew you to Vietnam specifically?

Brantley: It’s a country that feels like it’s on the move. There’s energy, growth, and optimism.

There’s also a strong demand for education and a growing interest in international opportunities. Families are looking for pathways to global education, and Vietnam is in a really interesting position regionally.

Greg: And you’re also looking at this as a parent.

Brantley: Absolutely. My kids were born in China, and I wanted them to experience another country before they leave home.

Part of my parenting approach has been to build resilience by exposing them to new environments. Moving to Vietnam is part of that.

Greg: That’s a powerful perspective.

Brantley: It’s important to prepare kids for a world that requires flexibility and adaptability.

Greg: So if someone is listening and thinking about joining a new school project like this, what would you say?

Brantley: It’s a unique opportunity. You’re building something from the ground up, which comes with challenges but also a lot of rewards.

You have to be comfortable with uncertainty and willing to adapt. But if you enjoy that kind of environment, it can be incredibly fulfilling.

Greg: Sounds like a great opportunity for the right person.

Greg: So right now, if someone wants to get involved, this is really the ground-floor opportunity.

Brantley: Absolutely. We’re literally building the school—physically and academically. The building is under construction, the team is forming, and we’re developing the curriculum.

It’s a rare chance to be part of something from the very beginning.

Greg: That’s exciting.

Greg: I want to ask something a little more lighthearted. We always ask our guests—do you have a police or customs story?

Brantley: I have a lot of stories, but most of them probably aren’t appropriate for this format.

Greg: We’ll keep it PG.

Brantley: I’ll say this—when you’re raising kids internationally, you also have to make sure they understand local rules and expectations.

At one point, my daughter got into a bit of a situation in Shanghai involving a scooter and a police officer. It turned into a learning moment about respecting local laws and understanding the environment you’re in.

Greg: That’s a good reminder for all of us.

Brantley: It really is. As educators and parents, we have to model and teach respect for the local context.

Greg: Let me ask one more fun question. Have you ever been in a situation where someone was talking about you in Mandarin and didn’t realize you understood?

Brantley: All the time. It happens constantly.

In China, it’s not that unusual for foreigners to speak Mandarin, but it still catches people off guard sometimes. In New York, it’s even more surprising.

I’ve overheard conversations about me and had the option to respond. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t. It depends on the situation.

Greg: That must be entertaining.

Brantley: It can be. It also gives you a thick skin. You hear everything—comments about your appearance, your behavior—sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly.

Greg: That’s part of the experience of living abroad.

Brantley: It is. And it builds resilience.

Greg: Before we wrap up, any final thoughts for teachers who are considering international education or working in places like China or Vietnam?

Brantley: Keep an open mind. Stay curious. Don’t rely on assumptions—go experience things for yourself.

Be willing to adapt and learn. And if you’re interested in places like Asia or organizations like Dwight, feel free to reach out. I’m always happy to connect and offer advice.

Greg: That’s great.

Greg: Brantley Turner, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a fantastic conversation.

Brantley: Thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity.

Kent: On behalf of Greg and myself, thanks for tuning in. We’ll see you next time on the International Teacher Podcast.