ITP - 37: International Teacher and Author Francesca Spencer

Greg: Welcome to another episode of the International Teacher Podcast. As a reminder, we’d like to invite all of you who are currently overseas as educators or administrators to share your stories with us.

Join us for an interview and reach out via email at [internationalteacherpodcast@gmail.com](mailto:internationalteacherpodcast@gmail.com), or use our handle @ITPexpat on Instagram or Twitter. We now have listeners in around 100 different countries who want to hear about your experiences.

This episode is a great example. I, Greg—the single guy—am interviewing Francesca Spencer. She’s a self-published author with four books. We’ll talk about those and hear stories about teaching and living in Kuwait, Vietnam, the UAE, and a bit about New Zealand.

She’s joining us from London, so let’s get to it.

Greg: Welcome to the International Teacher Podcast with your hosts Greg the single guy and Matt the family guy. We’re recording episodes from around the globe to tell you about the best-kept secret in education.

That’s right—it’s teaching overseas. We’re glad to have you.

Greg: Welcome to our show, Francesca.

Francesca: Hi, how are you?

Greg: Hi.

Francesca: Francesca Spencer is my pen name, and there are reasons for that. It’s really good to be here, and it’s so nice to be on your show. Thanks very much.

Greg: No problem. I reached out because I do a lot of reading, and I shared one of your books with Kent. We talked about it. I always look for books about international teaching, and you’ve written several—not just about teaching but also about traveling.

Let’s start with *Welcome to the State of Kuwait*. It’s a book you wrote a couple of years back, I believe. When did you decide to write it?

Francesca: It first came out in 2016. It was basically about my two years of teaching in Kuwait.

I collected a lot of stories—like you have, because I’ve read your book and it’s wonderful—from colleagues and admin staff I was teaching and living with. We collected these stories, and I said to my flatmate one day, “Oh my God, this is so great. Somebody’s going to have to write a book.”

She said, “Well, you do it.” And I said, “Well, I can’t write a book.” I had all these excuses. But then I started jotting things down—stories, events, anything that felt memorable or ridiculous.

After that first break between school years, I used the summer to organize everything. I realized the stories naturally fell into categories, so I grouped them, and those became the chapters.

I ended up with 22 chapters covering all sorts of experiences. Then I thought, “Right, I’ve written my book,” and that was it. I just continued teaching.

When I finished my second year, I decided to do something for myself. I’ve practiced yoga every day for almost 30 years, so for my 50th birthday, I treated myself to yoga teacher training in India.

I went there, completed four weeks of training, and during that time—if you remember 2016—Donald Trump was elected president on the same day there was a financial crisis in India. It was an intense experience.

That became my second book.

Then I thought, “Well, I’ve written two books. I better get a job because I’ve run out of money.” So I got another teaching job in the UAE. It didn’t last very long—you can probably relate to that.

After that, I traveled through South America, had a bit of a romance, and that became book number three.

So it was all very organic. I was still a teacher—I didn’t really think of myself as a writer, even though I had written three books.

Eventually, I realized I had this pattern: teach, save money, travel, have an adventure, write a book. Then do it again.

Last year, I decided to fully commit to being a writer. I left teaching temporarily—though you never really leave teaching—and focused entirely on writing.

I did webinars, learned about self-publishing, promotion, everything. It felt like being back at university—it was intense.

Then I wrote my first novel, *Jaffa*, which is about traveling in the 1980s. That’s where I am now. I’ve decided I’m a writer, though I may go back to teaching because I do enjoy it.

Greg: It’s wonderful to hear how much you’ve traveled and taught. Let’s unpack that a bit.

How many countries do you think you’ve been to?

Francesca: I haven’t actually counted. It would probably be a bit boring to go back and count now.

Greg: That’s okay—give us a rough estimate.

Francesca: Maybe around 100. I’ve been to most countries in Europe. I also lived in New Zealand for 22 years.

I didn’t intend to emigrate—I arrived as a tourist and stayed.

Greg: Wow, that’s incredible.

Francesca: Traveling is one of the best aspects of teaching. You can support yourself while exploring the world.

Greg: When I first went overseas in 2001, I’ve always had a job continuously. The countries I’ve lived in became my home base, and then I traveled to nearby countries from there.

Is that what you’ve done?

Francesca: Exactly. I did my teacher training in New Zealand, but I never actually taught there. My goal was always to find a way to fund my travel addiction.

I can’t stay in one place for too long. I don’t know what it is—it’s like a condition.

Greg: I have the same thing. It’s a rambling condition.

Greg: You’re originally from the UK, but you trained in New Zealand. Did you become fully certified there?

Francesca: I completed the training, but I never finalized the certification process. You have to apply for full registration afterward, and I didn’t do that.

I went back to London, did some substitute teaching, and then got a job in Kuwait. They didn’t require the final certification, and after that, no one ever asked for it.

Greg: You’re in that small category of teachers who built experience first and found opportunities through timing and connections.

Francesca: Yes, I’ve had a lot of opportunities that way.

Greg: How many different schools have you worked at?

Francesca: I did two years in Kuwait, then one year in Macau—which I loved, by the way. It’s a fantastic place.

One downside of international teaching, though, is the paperwork. The bureaucracy can be intense—different countries have different requirements, and everything needs to be translated, stamped, verified.

It can feel like jumping through flaming hoops.

Greg: Every country gives you stories just from that alone.

Francesca: Exactly. Every step of the process becomes a story.

Greg: How do you keep track of all your stories? Do you journal?

Francesca: For my South American trip, I kept a small notebook. Each day I’d write where I was and maybe a highlight.

But mostly, I don’t rely heavily on notes. When I write, I can relive the experiences in my head. If I forget details, I’ll look things up—like using Google Maps to visualize a place again.

For me, stories tend to form fully in my mind before I write them. It’s almost like watching a movie and then writing it down.

Greg: I understand that.

Greg: I’m a little bit like you in that way. If I don’t have something written down, I at least have a timeline because life gets hectic—so many countries, so many people, so many stories.

But the experiences that really stand out—those moments that push you far out of your comfort zone—they stay with you. The minute you start talking about them, they come right back like it was yesterday.

Francesca: Exactly. That’s the beauty of it. Those moments stay vivid.

Greg: I’ve been to about 70 countries. I actually track it with an app and Google Maps. My rule is that I have to stay overnight in a country for it to count.

So I’ve passed through places like the Netherlands and Korea many times, but I don’t count them because I’ve never actually stayed there.

Francesca: That makes sense.

Greg: It’s not really a goal—it just became a way to track my experiences and add something to my website for my family.

Francesca: Traveling has changed so much over the years, but the excitement is still the same. I still get that buzz going to the airport, getting on a plane, heading somewhere new. I love it.

Greg: I completely agree.

Greg: One thing I always tell teachers is to consider places they’ve never even heard of. If you get an opportunity to interview with a school in a country you can’t even find on a map, take the interview.

Sometimes the places you least expect turn into the best experiences. They might be challenging, but they often give you the best stories.

Francesca: I agree. You have to allow for those happy accidents. You can only control so much.

I remember having a checklist when I was looking for jobs. I wanted a certain salary, I wanted to be able to walk to school, and I wanted accommodation provided.

I didn’t really mind where the job was. The first school that offered me those things—that was Kuwait.

Greg: That’s a solid strategy.

Francesca: It worked for me. You need to have criteria, but also be flexible. It’s only a year or two of your life, and it goes quickly.

Greg: I always tell people the same thing. A contract is really about nine months of actual work time, and it flies by.

For me, I have two sets of criteria. One is more practical—I need air conditioning, some help at home, and transportation in most places.

But the most important things are that the school is reputable and that I connect with the leadership.

I want to meet the superintendent or head of school and see if our personalities and philosophies align.

Francesca: That’s really important.

Greg: It’s hard to judge from a distance, but it makes a huge difference once you’re there.

Greg: I had a difficult experience in Kuwait. I had a great immediate boss, but the superintendent and I didn’t see eye to eye.

That experience really reinforced how important leadership is.

Francesca: I had something similar in the UAE. People often think of Dubai as glamorous, but not every place is like that.

Greg: Exactly. You don’t really know until you get there.

Francesca: In my case, I realized within the first few weeks that something wasn’t right. People were leaving quickly—heads of departments just disappearing.

It created a lot of anxiety. I had signed a two-year contract, and it’s not my style to just walk away, so I planned to finish the term and then have a conversation about leaving.

But before I could do that, I was called into the principal’s office near the end of term and told to pack my bags.

Greg: Wow.

Francesca: At first, I thought it was terrible, but then I realized it was a relief. It saved me from a situation that wasn’t right for me.

Greg: Sometimes that happens.

Greg: I’ve seen situations like that, and it’s part of the reality of international teaching. You can’t fully understand a school until you’re there.

I had an experience where I left a school at the end of a contract because it wasn’t the right fit. I didn’t want to leave them in a difficult position, so I waited until a natural break point.

Francesca: That’s the right way to do it.

Greg: I’ve also seen the opposite. We had a teacher show up in Honduras, stay for three days, and then disappear without telling anyone.

Francesca: No way.

Greg: Completely gone. No note, nothing. The school thought something terrible had happened—they checked hospitals, police stations, everything.

Months later, we found out she had just gone to Guatemala to travel.

Francesca: That’s unbelievable.

Greg: It’s funny in a strange way, but it shows how important communication is.

Francesca: Absolutely. When you arrive somewhere, your colleagues become your family very quickly. That bond is strong.

Greg: And it lasts. I’m still in touch with people from my first year overseas.

Francesca: Me too. Those connections are incredibly valuable.

Greg: That’s one of the best parts of this lifestyle.

Greg: Let’s go back to your books for a minute. I read your *Jaffa* book—*Just Another Friendly Australian*—and I’m about three-quarters of the way through.

Francesca: Yes.

Greg: I’ve got a question for you. The main character, Jenny—is that you?

Francesca: Possibly. Jenny is about 20% me. She’s actually a composite character based on a friend I met in Macau who later became a colleague.

We’re about the same age, and when we started talking about music—especially 80s music—she told me stories about going to live recordings of a pop music show in Australia.

It didn’t matter who the band was—she would try to jump on stage and kiss the lead singer.

That kind of bold, fearless energy became the foundation for Jenny’s character.

Greg: I love that character. It’s such a fun story, especially with all the 80s references. You had me right away with George Michael.

Francesca: That opening scene is actually based on a real memory. The Wham! concert in London in 1983—it was a pivotal moment.

Before George Michael became a global icon, there was Wham!, and they were huge. They even toured China when hardly anyone else was doing that.

Greg: It really captures that era—traveling in the 80s when you had no phone, no internet. You just left home with a backpack.

Francesca: Exactly. It was a completely different experience. You were truly disconnected, which made everything feel more intense and immediate.

Greg: I love that.

Greg: I actually have a story from Australia. I went there for my 50th birthday.

Francesca: That sounds amazing.

Greg: I stayed in Adelaide and had some incredible experiences—diving with great white sharks and seeing leafy sea dragons.

But the best part was something completely unexpected. I was sitting at a hotel bar on Christmas Day, just messing around with my camera, when I started talking to the guy next to me.

At some point, someone came up to him for a photo. I didn’t realize who he was, so I asked.

He said, “Have you ever heard of the Little River Band?”

I said, “Of course—I love ‘Cool Change.’”

He said, “That’s my song. I wrote it.”

It turned out to be Glenn Shorrock. We ended up sitting there for two hours, just talking and having drinks.

Francesca: That’s incredible.

Greg: It was one of those random travel moments you can’t plan.

Francesca: Those are the best ones.

Greg: They really are.

Greg: Before we wrap up, is there a way for listeners to find your work and get in touch with you?

Francesca: Yes, you can go to my website: francescaspencerauthor.com. You can also find me on Facebook.

There’s a contact page on the site, and you can email me directly at [info@francescaspencerauthor.com](mailto:info@francescaspencerauthor.com).

I also have a free book available if you sign up—it’s about how I escaped Vietnam during the pandemic lockdown.

Greg: That sounds like a great story.

Francesca: It was quite an experience.

Greg: I’ll make sure to include links so people can find your books.

Greg: Before we finish, do you have any advice for teachers thinking about going overseas?

Francesca: Just do it. Don’t overthink it. Take the opportunity.

People often imagine the worst-case scenarios, but in my experience, people around the world are kind and helpful.

If you go with an open mind and a positive attitude, you’ll have an incredible experience.

Greg: That’s great advice.

Greg: Francesca, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a fantastic conversation.

Francesca: Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it.

Greg: Let’s meet up for a beer somewhere in the world.

Francesca: That would be brilliant.

Greg: Thanks again, and we’ll talk soon.