ITP - 154: From Wisconsin to the World: Leadership, Legacy, and International Schools

Hannah:
Welcome to another episode of the International Teacher Podcast. I’m your host, Hannah, and today I have Greg calling in from Saudi Arabia.
Greg:
It’s hot.
Hannah:
And we also have JP here with me, calling in from Mexico.
JP:
Hello. Good morning from Mexico.
Hannah:
And our special guest today is Robin, calling in from Florida.
JP:
Yay, Robin. I’m going to fangirl a little bit. I was at TASM in Oman for a number of years, and I never met you in person, but my head of school at the time, Kevin Schafer, knew you well because you were at the American Community School of Abu Dhabi as head of school. You were a bit of an inspiration for me as I got into administration.
So I’m very excited to have you on the show and hear your international journey: how you went overseas, how you ended up becoming a head of school in different places, and all the stories along the way. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us.
Robin:
Thank you. I look forward to sharing it.
Greg:
You mean we have a former head of school on our show? I love it. We can never have enough admin on the show.
JP:
Tell us a little bit about how you got into teaching and how you discovered this thing called international education.
Robin:
Getting into teaching probably started when I was in kindergarten. I would come home, and my parents had one of those magnetic maps of the United States, one of the world, one with ABCs, and one with numbers. They also bought one of those old-time school desks that were connected, so it was like two desks together.
I would come home from kindergarten, and my grandma would be there. She would ask, “So, what did you learn today?” She would be holding our cat and listening to me teach the lesson of the day. So I guess teaching was always in my heart. I always knew I would be a teacher, and that’s what I went into.
I’m from Wisconsin.
Greg:
What part of Wisconsin?
Robin:
God’s country: La Crosse.
Greg:
La Crosse. Okay. I’m from Green Bay. Originally Milwaukee-born, but Green Bay.
Robin:
Of course. How about those Packers?
When I went looking for a job, I had graduated from high school in 1974 and university in 1978. I went right into a teaching position about 22 miles away from La Crosse, in Sparta, Wisconsin, at Sparta Senior High School. If you’re familiar with Wisconsin, that’s next door to Fort McCoy.
While I was teaching in Sparta, I got to know a lot of military families whose children came into the school. That was one connection to the overseas or international world.
My background was political science and broad-field social studies, so that worldly vision of social studies was always part of who I was. I taught in Sparta for about ten years. I was what they called “Inspector 12,” because every senior in Wisconsin had to pass an American government course to graduate. Every child who went through Sparta High School had to take my course. I taught consumer economics and American government.
I had a good friend, Jane Schartzer, who was the art teacher. She’s also a known name in international education. One day she said, “Have you thought about international? There’s this thing called international education. There are recruiting fairs in Iowa at the University of Northern Iowa.”
I said, “No, but sure. Let’s go. Let’s go see the world.”
So we drove down to UNI in February. If you’re from the Midwest, you know February is cold and icy. Not exactly a vacation destination.
JP:
Not a destination vacation in February.
Hannah:
That’s Iowa in general.
Robin:
We went to this recruiting fair. At that time, UNI probably had one of the biggest recruiting fairs for international education. You would sit around in the student union at tables and hear people talking about Kuala Lumpur, Ulaanbaatar, Tegucigalpa — places we didn’t even know how to pronounce.
Jane and I were amazed.
But every head of school we talked to said, “Well, you need some international experience. You need some teaching experience overseas before we hire you.” It was a completely different hiring game then. Rarely did they hire you on the spot. You probably had to be a physics teacher with outstanding recommendations for that to happen.
In those days, I remember receiving a telegram from Stavanger, Norway, asking if I wanted a job. Or they would telephone, if they had access to a phone and could make an international call. A lot of times heads of school had to go back and have their boards approve who they were hiring, which was also very interesting.
We went the first year and both said, “This seems really interesting. How can we get international experience?”
Jane did some research and found a visiting teacher overseas program through the University of Wisconsin-River Falls. She went to London, and I went to Edinburgh, Scotland. I was a visiting teacher in an all-boys school, teaching religion and history. Jane was teaching art in a school in London.
When we went back to the recruiting fair, we started hearing the same things. Jane eventually went to Kinshasa, Zaire, which is now the Democratic Republic of Congo. There was no email. You couldn’t really make a phone call from Zaire. She wrote these long letters on those little one-page airmail forms that you folded up.
She wrote that they were going to have a social studies position open and asked if I was interested.
I had received an offer to go to Stavanger, Norway, and then an offer to go to Kinshasa to teach social studies. I thought, Stavanger: cold, dark, lots of night or lots of daylight. Kinshasa: hot, warm, Africa, and I had a friend there.
So I chose Kinshasa. That was the start of my journey.
From the minute I was at the American School of Kinshasa and met the people there, I knew this would be part of my world. I had been teaching in Wisconsin for about ten years, and it was that point where you start asking, “Is this really what I want to do? Is this where I want to be?” I knew that overseas was appealing to me.
I taught social studies at TASOK for two years. Then I decided I wanted to look into going back and getting my doctorate. During the summer between my first and second year in Kinshasa, I interviewed at different universities and ended up getting a full fellowship to the University of Oregon to work on a PhD in curriculum and instruction.
JP:
When you say full fellowship, does that mean it was paid for?
Robin:
Yes. It was not only scholarship support, but also work-study. I worked in the office of teaching, supervised student teachers, and advised people going into education. It was a two-year fellowship.
JP:
And that was full-time in Oregon. Obviously nothing online then.
Robin:
No, nothing online. I think I bought my first Mac computer then — the little square one with the floppy disk. But the internet wasn’t part of reality yet.
I knew I wanted to go back overseas and not stay in the United States. So after Oregon, I went recruiting again, back to UNI. This was the early 1990s.
Greg:
I have a quick caveat question. I’ve been to UNI three times, but the first time was in 2001. That very first time, I thought, “Someday I’m going to be up on that stage with the experienced panelists.” Did they have a panel back then?
Robin:
Not during those years, no. I remember panels later from ISS or Search, but not during those first years.
I remember sitting at those tables and listening to people talk about different places in the world. It was a big round student center. And there was really only one place to go out to eat — a Chinese restaurant in Iowa.
When I finished my doctorate and was getting ready to present my dissertation, I went recruiting again. There was a job opening in Rabat, Morocco. This was 1991, and the ground war in Iraq had just broken out.
I was talking with Jim Ambrose, who was in Abu Dhabi at the time, Bob Sills, who was in Rabat, and Rick Spradling, who was in Tunisia. There was competition among heads. They were talking to each other about me.
Jim said, “I need to interview another couple.” I said, “Well, I’m going to talk to Bob Sills now, and I fully expect I’ll be made a job offer.” Jim leaned back and said, “Well, I think I want to offer you a job too.”
As a candidate, always keep that in your back pocket.
I chose Rabat. Bob Sills was larger than life at the time, and he was probably the person who supported me in going to the dark side — the administrative side. Rabat and Morocco could not have been a better place for me.
I was teaching, but I was also the curriculum coordinator. That was the period when curriculum coordinators became actual positions in schools. I was on the groundwork of that, and it was a golden opportunity.
I hadn’t wanted to go into the principalship or headship. Forget it. But in my third year, Bob decided he was going to take a sabbatical in the U.S. and finish his doctorate at Harvard during my fourth year. He put me in charge of the Middle States self-study. That gave me another opportunity to lead, and he strongly encouraged me to move into administration.
When I went recruiting that fourth year, there were a lot of director of curriculum, instruction, and professional development positions open, primarily in Asia. Bob supported me wholeheartedly, and I ended up at ISKL in Kuala Lumpur.
JP:
Can we take a step back? Middle States Association — that’s an accreditation body. Can you explain what that looks like when they come into a school, or what schools do to prepare?
Robin:
Generally speaking, American international schools affiliated with the Office of Overseas Schools — and even private schools overseas offering an American education — strive for U.S. accreditation. Accreditation is basically validation of what you are doing against a set of standards.
The world was divided into regions. Middle States Association took much of Africa and Eastern Europe. Western Association of Schools and Colleges, WASC, took Asia. Southern Association, which is now Cognia, took Central and South America and the Caribbean. New England Association went into Europe and later became a major overseas presence.
Each organization accredits schools in the United States, but they also have overseas accreditation areas.
A school looks at the standards and the objectives under each standard. The school conducts a self-study, evaluates itself, gathers evidence, and then a team of “critical friends,” chosen by the accrediting agency, comes in to validate what the school has written and make recommendations.
If it’s done well and the community is engaged, it can be a fulfilling growth opportunity. If it’s done by one person in an office, a visiting team can pick that out right away.
The visiting team is usually made up of experienced international educators: administrators, teachers, curriculum directors. The visit is often three to five days. They read the self-study ahead of time, review evidence, conduct interviews and focus groups, and try to help guide the school toward improvement.
I served on 26 accreditation teams because of my curriculum and teaching-and-learning positions. I also led accreditations in Rabat and Kuala Lumpur. You get a feel, usually within the first day, whether there are issues. The goal is not to catch a school. The goal is to help the school.
Greg:
And once they get accreditation, the visiting team sends a written evaluation, the school gets steps to improve, and after a number of years they are revisited to renew their accreditation.
Robin:
Exactly. The number of years depends on the agency.
I remember being on my first visiting team when I was in Rabat. I was flying to Bahrain, and in the first row of economy, in the bulkhead section, there were four seats with falcons tied to the seats, wearing their little caps. I thought, “My God, I am not in Kansas anymore. I am definitely not in Wisconsin.”
JP:
Economy tickets, not first class. Good to know. I always pictured accreditation visitors arriving first class and staying at the Shangri-La.
Robin:
No, no. Generally, as the person leading accreditation, we tried to put visitors somewhere nice, easy, representative, and affordable. First class didn’t happen until I was a head of school.
JP:
So you’re in Kuala Lumpur, and I think you were director of teaching and learning. Is that similar to curriculum coordinator, but a step up?
Robin:
Yes. My title was something like Director of Curriculum, Assessment, and Professional Development — CAPD. Titles were never that important to me, but basically it was director of teaching and learning. It covered assessment, professional development, and curriculum.
I was there for six years. It was a staff administrative position because I didn’t directly supervise teachers, except the person in my office. But in Southeast Asia, there was a close group of curriculum coordinators and directors of teaching and learning.
Dick Krajczar hired me to go to Kuala Lumpur, and he later became the executive director of EARCOS. He always organized and supported directors of teaching and learning in the region because he knew that, as a head of school, if you have a strong director of teaching and learning, a lot of parents won’t come to your office. They’ll go to that person.
Kids would ask me, “What’s your job?” I would say, “My job is really a make-work job. I make work for people. I make them do curriculum. I make them go to professional development.”
One colleague, Dennis Larkin, said to me, “Robin, in the job you’re in now, there really are no M&Ms. There’s no candy. You don’t get many treats because no one really likes the work you make them do.”
JP:
Because you make work for other people. I remember seeing curriculum coordinators coming down the hallway and thinking, “Hide.”
Greg:
You’re between staff and admin. Not quite in the inner circle of admin, but not staff either. So what did you do? Did you pivot?
Robin:
Yes. I started out teaching, then moved into teaching and administration, and then in Kuala Lumpur I was considered an administrator. The principals liked having me there because I took a load off their work. I could help teachers get curriculum written. I could work with fine arts teachers, whom I loved, but who were not always thrilled about putting things on paper.
After six years, I asked, “What’s my next step?” The next step was to become a line administrator. I began looking at principalships.
By then, the connections you make in the international world start to stretch out. Not only did I have Bob Sills, but I had Dick Krajczar, Joe Stucker, Dennis Larkin, and other administrators supporting my move into educational administration. At that point, most of them were men.
A friend in Buenos Aires, Jane Lowry, wrote to me and said, “We’re going to have a high school principal position. Are you interested?” I said yes.
JP:
What was the timing like then? These days it can be a year and a half in advance.
Robin:
Now it is. Back then, for administrators and principals in the early 2000s, you were more likely to be hired at a fair, not prior to a fair. You started interviewing and then were hired for the next school year.
That’s what happened with Lincoln in Buenos Aires. Phil Joslin was the head of school there. I think he had already made up his mind. He loved Jane, he had met me, and he had likely spoken with people about me.
Greg:
And they had TIE Online back then, the actual newspaper. Half articles, half school advertisements. You’d see it in superintendent offices and staff rooms.
Robin:
Yes. Search would also send out a thick booklet with all the information and photos. People now don’t always understand that it was paper.
Greg:
I’ve always told people that international schools often groom leaders from within. Heads of school groom principals. Principals groom assistant principals. Curriculum coordinators can be part of that. It’s interesting to hear the history of that from you.
Robin:
In a way, it still is not necessarily what you know as much as who you know.
Greg:
Absolutely. It’s the smallest school district in the world, but worldwide. Everyone knows each other. And at job fairs, the heads are all talking.
Robin:
That’s what I was saying about Jim Ambrose, Rick Spradling, and Bob Sills. They were good friends and all knew they were looking at me. They were asking each other, “Are you going to make an offer?”
When I was supporting and nurturing people, I would always say, “It’s not about you. It’s about the fit.” You have to go into every position knowing that if you don’t get it, most of the time it’s not personal. It’s about whether the fit will work.
You don’t want to go somewhere where the fit isn’t good because it won’t fill you with joy. They’re not only interviewing you. You must be prepared to interview them.
Greg:
That’s why I called my book Finding the Right Fit. The job fair is a dating game over two or three days. Transparency is huge. You were transparent with heads of school by saying, “I’m going to talk to Bob. I’m going to talk to Jim. My cards are on the table.”
Robin:
I’m from Wisconsin. What you see is what you get. I wasn’t going to hide anything. If they asked where else I was interviewing, I told them.
Another thing: be open and honest. If you are not prepared to do something and they ask if you can do it, don’t say yes unless you’re ready to prepare quickly.
In my first teaching job in Sparta, Frank Borg asked me, “What about coaching volleyball?” This was before Title IX had really changed the landscape. Women’s athletics were just beginning. I said, “Yes, I can coach.” I had played volleyball in elementary school.
Then I went to a bookstore and bought every book I could find about coaching volleyball. I was supposed to be an assistant coach, but when I arrived, they said, “No, you’re going to be the head coach.” I thought, “My God, I’d better learn something.”
Greg:
Adaptability is the key overseas, but don’t bite off more than you can chew. Don’t say you’ll teach French if you’ve never taken French.
Robin:
Exactly.
Back to JP’s question about timelines: when I interviewed with Phil Joslin at Lincoln in Buenos Aires, I interviewed with him and a couple of other schools. Then Phil said, “Why don’t you come with me and let’s do some interviews?” He hadn’t offered me the job yet. He wanted me to interview teachers for his school.
I sat in on the first interview. Then he said, “Okay, I’m going to let you continue interviewing the next few people.”
I walked out and got a message from New Delhi saying they wanted to talk to me about a potential offer. I thought, “Well, Phil hasn’t even made me an offer yet, and I’m interviewing teachers for his school.”
At the reception, I said to Phil, “I just got a call from New Delhi, and they want to talk to me about making an offer.” He said, “Well, you’re not free. You’re not available.”
I said, “Phil, you’ve never made me an offer.”
That’s a head-of-school thing. Sometimes you have a dream and think it’s reality. You imagine you’ve offered someone the job, but no — not until you actually make the offer.
Moving to Buenos Aires and into that line position was a new challenge. That became the pattern in my career: I wanted new challenges. I wasn’t necessarily trying to climb a ladder, though that is often how education works. I wanted the next challenge.
I was in Kuala Lumpur for six years, then Buenos Aires for six years as high school principal. Buenos Aires was probably the pivotal point in my career. That was when ISS and Marianne Haas started the Women’s Leadership Seminar. Phil put my name forward in the second year.
I was with a group of women who were heads of school, and it had one of the most influential impacts on my career, on my ways of knowing, being, and doing. It deepened my commitment to supporting and nurturing people — especially women — in their quest for headships or leadership roles.
Paying it forward is one of the most critical gifts we can give ourselves as educators, and it helps the future by helping kids.
After that, I said, “I want to be a head of school.” In my fourth year in Argentina, I went to Phil and said, “There’s a head-of-school position open in Rabat.”
He looked at me and said, “You’re not ready yet.”
Someone telling me I wasn’t ready for something was powerful. I said, “What do you mean?” He said, “Give me two more years, and you will be ready.”
So he set me up on the finance committee with the board, the personnel committee, and had me work with Carlos on the full school budget and currency fluctuation. He did everything to prepare me — not always directly, but by facilitating opportunities for me to learn, grow, and feel confident.
That was the best thing an administrator ever said to me: “You’re not ready yet, but I’ll do everything I can to get you ready.”
JP:
At first you might think, “He just doesn’t want to hire another high school principal.” But it wasn’t selfish. He was thinking about how to help you succeed.
Greg:
And there’s a bit of healthy selfishness too, because when you train people well and they succeed, it reflects on you. That’s a great leadership story.
Robin:
As experienced teachers, we need to do that with new teachers too. Think about being a team leader, department chair, or mentor. You don’t have to be an administrator to support and nurture the people who come after you. In education, we need to share what we know and pay it forward.
Greg:
That’s the heart of our show. That’s why Matt and I started it. We’re not monetizing. We’re paying the knowledge forward and telling people about the best-kept secret in education.
JP:
So now we’re dying to know: where was your first headship?
Robin:
The American International School of Zagreb.
I had been to Africa, Southeast Asia, and South America. So I thought, Europe. My headship search was in November 2006, and I would start in July or August 2007.
I had four schools I was going to interview with. Three were in Africa, and one was Zagreb. Zagreb was my first interview. By that point, having been on many accreditation teams and having visited many schools, I could tell if a school had a good heart just by walking in.
For head-of-school candidates, they usually fly you in. They don’t fly in seven or eight people. There is a long list, then a short list, then a finalist list.
I already had a ticket to Bamako, Mali, which was the next school. I was also considering Luanda and possibly Harare or Lusaka. John Magagna from Search was running the fair and would ask questions in a way that let you know where he thought I should go. “Do you want to go to this school with a bunch of oil people? Do you want to go to that school where they just fired so-and-so?”
I wanted Zagreb. They offered me the position, and I said, “I need to honor my commitment to Bamako. I will let you know one week from today. Call me again.”
I went to Bamako and realized I had already been to Africa. I wanted a new location. Zagreb became my first headship.
The school had about 180 students, K-12. As head of school, you did everything. I had one person who was sort of a principal, but also a teaching principal. It was the best move I could have made at that time.
I already had the educational side down from Kuala Lumpur and Buenos Aires. Zagreb gave me the operational side: boards, parents, budgets, buses, balls, buildings. I used to say I was a C-word person: curriculum, caring, children, compassion, community, communication. I didn’t like the B words: boards, balls, buses, budgets. But I realized that as head of school, the B words were necessary to make the C words come true.
In Zagreb, we grew the school to about 280 students and set it up for an eventual new build and new school after I left for Abu Dhabi. It was a great experience, but it was winter.
It was also my first experience as head in hiring all the teachers. Email and Skype were becoming part of the process — not Zoom, not WhatsApp, but Skype and telephone interviews.
One of the biggest things I learned as an administrator, especially in Buenos Aires and Zagreb, was that you never just take written recommendations. You always follow up with two personal phone calls to verify what is being said.
JP:
It’s amazing that fell by the wayside for a while, and now child safeguarding has put it back on the table. As a head of department or principal, I sometimes wasn’t getting called. But that’s basic: check whether what’s written is true.
Greg:
The quality schools I’ve worked at did that well. I’ve also been at schools where I thought, “Nobody checked this person’s background.” Face-to-face recruiting still matters, especially for key positions where you want someone for four or six years, not just two.
Robin:
Another thing I learned as a head of school: Robin is a gender-neutral name. If I received an email inquiring about a job and it said “Mr. Heslip,” I didn’t answer. I put it in the trash.
My advice to teachers is: do your research. Get on the website. Find out who you are writing to and how to address them. If you cannot find out, use their first and last name. Period.
Greg:
That is powerful. You tossed them because they didn’t do the research.
JP:
With LinkedIn now, there’s no excuse. Check the website. See how the superintendent signs off. See whether they use “Dr.”
Robin:
I also used to send candidates four open-ended questions. One was, “Do you have any questions for me?”
I looked at how they responded. Were they articulate? Could they communicate? Did they answer the question? If someone sent back twenty questions, that felt like high maintenance.
Hannah:
What kind of questions were you hoping they would ask?
Robin:
With my background in curriculum, instruction, and professional development, I liked candidates who wanted to continue learning. I liked questions such as, “In what ways does the school support teachers in their continued growth?”
I also liked questions about onboarding: “What should I prepare for when moving to Zagreb or Abu Dhabi? What are the top three things I should know?” In Abu Dhabi, for example, I would say, “You need to be prepared for 110-degree heat when you arrive, and everything is air-conditioned, so you may be living indoors more than you expect.”
I liked questions about professional learning, growth, and transition. In interviews, I also liked to ask, “What question do you wish I had asked you that I didn’t ask?”
JP:
Another way to say that is, “Is there something you wish you had shared but didn’t get asked?”
Robin:
Exactly. That often becomes more personal.
There is the science of teaching and the art of teaching. The science of teaching is something we can help people learn and grow in. The art of teaching is more about culture and heart. There has to be connection — with administration, colleagues, and students.
You can also learn a lot when you call references. Ask, “What is this person like in a faculty meeting?”
Greg:
It’s such a puzzle. In an interview, you’re also thinking about how a person fits into the team. It’s not always personal. It may not be the right fit at the right time.
Robin:
“At the right time” is key.
One thing I always looked for was where candidates placed students in their decision-making process. If teachers only talked about what they did, I wanted to hear what the students did that showed they were learning. There’s a big difference between talking about me and talking about the kids.
When I visited schools, I could usually tell within half an hour whether the school had heart by looking at the students. Did they open doors? Did they ignore me? Did they offer help when I looked lost on campus?
Zagreb taught me a lot about the operational parts of a school, but also about building and expanding community and working with a board. As head of school, you are hired by the board, but you become part of the board’s work. You work in partnership with the board. It is a very lonely position.
JP:
That’s why heads of school network with each other. They need people who understand the work and can keep things confidential.
Robin:
Exactly.
After six years in Zagreb, I thought carefully about what was next. I’ll be honest: the head position wasn’t my favorite position. I didn’t find as much joy in it as I had as a high school principal. In Zagreb, because the school was small, I knew every child’s name and every family. I knew my next headship would be very different and much bigger.
I applied for principalships too, because honestly, my favorite role was high school principal. I loved working with students and helping them learn how to ask better questions. I would tell them, “Never ask a yes-or-no question. Be a bowler, not a crapshooter. Ask, ‘Under what circumstances?’”
I also applied for headships. Abu Dhabi had gone through a search already and had hired someone, but that person was let go very quickly. So they reopened the search. This was March 2012, and I would start in July 2013 — about a year and a half later.
I was looking at Saigon South in Vietnam, ISKL in Kuala Lumpur, Rabat American School, and the American Community School of Abu Dhabi.
JP:
Two of those were schools you’d already been at. I’ve always heard, “Don’t go back, because it’s never the same.” Did that come to mind?
Robin:
Yes. Some people can go back successfully, but you already know the struggles. There isn’t a honeymoon. There isn’t the same freshness. When I interviewed with ISKL and Rabat, I knew it wouldn’t work for me, and probably not for them.
Abu Dhabi was different. I hadn’t been in the Middle East yet. When I went on campus, within fifteen minutes I loved their mission, vision, and focus on arts, athletics, academics, and service learning. You could feel it from the kids.
I would be standing there, wondering which building to go into, and within thirty seconds a student would come up and ask, “Can we help you find a place? Are you one of the candidates for the head-of-school position?”
I was moving from a school of around 270 students to a school of about 1,000. Boards have to think carefully about that. I had never worked in the Middle East, and I was a woman. But the Middle East has always had its share of female leaders. That region has been ahead in some ways with female heads of school.
I also think schools should look more closely at people who have been small-school heads. In a small school, you wear many hats. You learn the whole school.
I knew Abu Dhabi would be my swan song overseas. I was looking at a five-to-seven-year posting. I had done six years in Zagreb, six in Buenos Aires, six in Kuala Lumpur, and four in Rabat. Abu Dhabi made the offer, and I was very happy to go there.
Bob Gross was the interim head that year, and we talked every week. We hired a new elementary principal, elementary assistant principal, high school principal, high school assistant principal, director of teaching and learning, athletic director, admissions person, CFO, and director of technology. Nine new leadership positions. We started meeting as a leadership team seven months before we arrived, virtually through Skype.
Each place I lived taught me something.
In Kinshasa, I learned to live each day fully. I saw suffering, but also joy — people dancing, living life, even while facing death daily.
In Rabat, I learned to look up and enjoy the beauty above. Moroccan homes often have courtyards open to the sky, and that taught me to look upward.
In Kuala Lumpur, I learned the dance of diplomacy: to be respectful, listen, engage, and take something from every conversation.
In Buenos Aires, I learned the importance of family and sacred time together.
In Zagreb, I learned about community, resilience, and the operational realities of leadership.
In Abu Dhabi, I learned the beauty of the Middle East, the meaning of Eid, the meaning of faith and spirituality, and the richness of that region. The events happening in the Middle East today break my heart because I know what it really is.
Being a head of school is lonely, and networking matters. But networking needs to start at the teacher level. Regional organizations — AMISA, Tri-Association, CEESA, ECIS, AISA, EARCOS, NESA — all offer opportunities for teachers to get involved. Teachers should take every opportunity, online and in person, to build connections and understand what it means to live elsewhere.
When it was time to leave Abu Dhabi, I had my A, B, C, D, E, and F plans. My A plan was to become a regional education officer with the Office of Overseas Schools. It would keep my feet in both worlds.
I had a condo on the beach in Flagler Beach, Florida, and one morning I was watching a beautiful sunrise with coffee. I heard myself say out loud, “Maybe it’s time to come home.” So I told the board I would be leaving in July 2018. I gave them two years’ notice.
I knew there would likely be a position opening in the Office of Overseas Schools. When I left Abu Dhabi, I moved to Washington, D.C., and became a regional education officer. Then COVID hit, and much of the work moved online.
I was the regional education officer for Mexico, Central America, South America, and the Caribbean — the best part of the world. That involved a lot of travel and school visits, which was in my wheelhouse.
As a regional education officer, I was a life coach for Foreign Service families trying to figure out what to do for their children, a consultant to schools, and a mentor to heads of school, board chairs, and boards.
That region has many female heads and female leaders, and I take some fulfillment from having supported the growth of female leadership there and worldwide. But I have also supported anyone looking for a head position or principal position when I believed they would be good for kids. I always put kids at the center of those decisions.
So that’s almost 50 years.
JP:
That is amazing. So now you’ve stepped back from the Office of Overseas Schools and retired to Florida, or are you semi-retired?
Robin:
I say I’m retired, but I don’t think educators ever fully retire. I do consulting work with boards and schools on good governance.
If there is one thing every American international school needs, it is help making sure the board and head have a balanced relationship. Boards need to understand the difference between operational issues and strategic issues, and who is responsible for each. Helping boards figure that out is something I like to do. But now I get to choose.
Greg:
You say you don’t like the B words, but now you’re helping with the B words.
Robin:
Yes, because it all leads to the children.
JP:
If a school board governor is listening and thinking, “This is exactly who we need,” how can they find you?
Robin:
I’m on LinkedIn. I don’t have a website because that would mean I was really working.
Greg:
They can go through us. We’ll filter them for you.
Robin:
AAIE also has its good governance section. I’ve had training in good governance, which is based on curriculum from the National Association of Independent Schools. David Hojnowski and Rick Detwiler adapted that work into the International Trustee Handbook, shifting the governance guidance into what international schools need.
Greg:
Since you’re in Florida now, are you doing anything locally with education? Or is your focus still international?
Robin:
It’s still international. That’s my arena.
JP:
Robin, we have two questions we always ask on ITP. First, do you have a police story?
Robin:
When I was in Rabat, my friend Barbara Parker and I would take weekend trips around Morocco. Morocco was easy to travel in as women. One time I was driving and not really paying attention to the speed limit. We were pulled over.
A Moroccan policeman came over in what looked like a brand-new uniform. I knew enough French to understand that he wanted my driver’s license. Before I could say anything, Barbara started speaking to him in Arabic. She immediately began talking about his uniform: how nice it was, whether it was made in Italy, how good he looked, how spiffy it was. Nothing about why we had been pulled over.
We drove away without a ticket. I learned from that the art of deflection.
I used it again in Kuala Lumpur. I was driving while talking on a cell phone, which I should not have been doing. I was pulled over. The officer wanted my driver’s license. I didn’t have my Malaysian license with me, only my Wisconsin license.
He looked at it and asked, “What is this?”
I said, “Wisconsin.”
He asked, “What is this?”
I said, “Green Bay Packers.” It was the year the Packers were going to the Super Bowl, so everyone knew them. We started talking about the Packers, and then he said, “Go, go, go.”
Greg:
A Green Bay Packers fan doesn’t need a ticket.
Robin:
Exactly.
Hannah:
Second question: what three things do you bring with you to a new place that don’t have heartbeats?
Robin:
I always had a little basket of photos. The same photos over the years, with new ones added. Even after things became digital, I would print certain photos. I had that basket with me all the time. Especially in Zagreb and Abu Dhabi, when I felt lonely, I could reach for it, laugh, and remember people and moments.
The second thing was always one artifact from a place I had lived: a basket from Malaysia, a pyramid made of malachite from Zaire, a carpet from Rabat. One piece that reminded me where I had been.
The third thing would be my dogs — but they have heartbeats, so I can’t count them.
My mother made a quilt when she was 12 years old, and I took that quilt with me to every location. It’s hanging in my bedroom now. I never put it on the bed; it was always a hanging piece. It reminded me of her.
So: photos, one artifact from a previous place, and my mother’s quilt.
Greg:
What am I going to title this episode? I have no idea. We’ve heard your story from the beginning of your education career through almost fifty years of memories and experience as a woman, a leader, and an educator overseas.
How many schools were you in over the years?
Robin:
If you count Sparta as my U.S. school, then Kinshasa, Rabat, Kuala Lumpur, Buenos Aires, Zagreb, and Abu Dhabi.
JP:
Seven schools, seven countries.
Greg:
It is amazing to talk with you. You’ve validated so much of what we talk about and try to share. I love talking with people who have gone before us and helped set the stage. When I meet someone at a job fair who has been overseas since the seventies or eighties, we have a shorthand. We know each other already. You’re in our tribe.
Robin:
I think the biggest adjustment I had coming back to the United States was that for 31 years overseas, it was like assisted living. Everything was done for me. Then I came back and had to start doing things myself.
Greg:
I’m going to have to do my own laundry next year. My God. I can’t have a maid? I can’t get a massage? I can’t have a suit made?
Robin:
It isn’t even just the cost. It’s the familiarity of knowing, “I have a guy for that.”
Greg:
Exactly. In every country you live in, you know a guy.
JP:
Robin, thank you so much for coming onto the show and accepting our invitation to share your journey. I know this is going to be one of our listeners’ favorite episodes. They’re going to voyage around the world through your eyes and your experience, just as we have today.
Greg, final thoughts?
Greg:
I just gave mine. You inspire me to stay in this and keep going. I’ve been at seven schools in seven countries around the world, and I want to keep going. Maybe I’ll change my tune after spending time with my dad next year, but right now I can’t wait to get back out there. Talking with you reminds me why.
JP:
Hannah?
Hannah:
Thank you so much for joining us. As a TCK and now an international educator, I still feel like this is where I’m supposed to be. Hearing stories like yours assures me of that. You’ve been doing this for such a long time, and it’s fantastic to hear these stories. Thank you so much.
Robin:
Thank you. The best thing is that I don’t have regrets about what I’ve done. International education gave me the best part of life: seeing different parts of the world and understanding different people.
Do I want to travel much now? Not really. A lot of people retire and want to travel. Being a regional education officer burned me out on travel. I would be in multiple cities, multiple airports, and multiple schools in a short time. Now I’m happy being here.
But I don’t regret any of it. It was the best career and life I could have imagined.
JP:
Thank you again, Robin.
Greg:
Thank you, Robin.
Hannah:
Thank you.
Robin:
Thank you.