ITP - 151: The People You Meet, Travel Fatigue, and Stories from Southeast Asia

Hannah: Welcome to the International Teacher Podcast. I’m your host, Hannah, calling in from spring break in Sri Lanka. Today we have JP Mint and Greg with us as hosts.
JP: Hello from Mexico!
Greg: Welcome back, everybody. I can’t wait to talk about this next guest.
Hannah: Today’s special guest is Melissa. Hi Melissa, how are you doing?
Melissa: Hi, guys. I’m very well. How are you?
JP: Awesome possum. Melissa, where are you calling in from?
Melissa: Toronto. I live in Toronto, Canada, where we thought we had spring and then we just got another storm. So winter is not over yet.
Greg: Did you get three feet of snow?
Melissa: Not this time, but it’s like our third winter this season. We had really warm temperatures last week, but we’re right back into it. We’re not out of the woods yet.
Greg: As we’re talking right now, in the Midwest it’s supposed to be two to three feet of snow, which is strange for us. It hasn’t been many years since we’ve had that. But that’s in the Midwest, not for me. And we have a fellow Canadian here for you. JP is another Canadian.
JP: Yeah!
Melissa: Where are you from?
JP: Ottawa.
Melissa: Very cool. That’s great.
JP: Can you tell us a little bit about your international journey, or the connection you have to international teaching?
Melissa: I think I have to say right here that I’m not a teacher. I don’t know if that still works.
Greg: Super traveler, though.
JP: You’re a traveler, so that’s great.
Melissa: Yes. My story is that I’m a pretty normal person. I have a nine-to-five life, but I’ve managed to create adventure outside of that.
I started traveling probably when I was seven. My first big trip was when we lived in Australia for a year, and I guess that planted the seed. My dad did a teacher exchange in 1981, so we went from Port Perry, which is a town north of Toronto, to the bush of Western Australia. I went to school there and picked up an Australian accent. I guess that was the start.
Then I did an exchange in high school to Belgium. I moved around Canada quite a bit in my twenties, and then in my late twenties I got the bug. I started doing all the things I could do. That’s my long story short.
Greg: You’re very humble about your travels because you do have a book out, and one of the reasons you wanted to come on the episode was to talk about that book. We’ve had lots of authors on in the past. I started to read your sample on Amazon. Tell us about your book.
Melissa: Back in 2010, at the ripe old age of thirty-five, I quit my job and went with my partner at the time to Southeast Asia. He was researching luxury travel routes, and we had traveled together for about four years before that.
We met on a cycling trip in Cuba. He was from England, I was from Canada, so we just met all over the world for amazing journeys, which in my mind is the best relationship you can ever have when you don’t have to see them all the time.
He was trying to create a business in luxury travel, and I didn’t love my job at the time, so I quit and off we went. When you are with somebody who has a purpose, and he was meeting people in hotels, doing tours, and meeting tour operators, being the plus-one is awesome. But after a few weeks I was very restless. I have a pretty active mind, I’m creative, and I needed something for me.
We had traveled this way many times. Ninety percent of our trips were backpacking and ten percent were luxury, so this wasn’t completely new. But when you are in a multi-month experience, sometimes you need more. As you get older, hanging around isn’t so cool after a while.
I started writing these emails home. That was 2010. We didn’t have phones, and we weren’t in constant contact with anybody, which was actually a beautiful time. I’m sure we can all agree.
I was sitting on long trains and buses, sometimes eighteen hours, sometimes thirty-six hours, and I just started creating these things in my head about what I was seeing, what I was doing, the people, and the humor. Once a week I’d find an internet cafe and blast these things out.
They took on a life of their own. My friends and family started sending them to their networks, and that became my purpose. Then it took me fifteen years to take those emails and turn them into a book. I went back and forth about whether to do it, but I finally dusted them off. Here we are. That’s my story.
Greg: I was wondering how you kept track of that, because I didn’t know if it was a travel log or if you wrote it by hand. I did read the beginning of it, so I want to mention two things.
I have something that you might relate to, Melissa, because it’s actually from your book, but it’s the opposite. I went from Cambodia, when I was living there, back to Chicago. Coming from squat toilets and all the different kinds of toilets they have over there, I got to the airport after a long airplane ride and customs. The first thing I did was go to the bathroom. I sat down, stood up when I was done, and then realized, “Oh, it’s a sit-down toilet.” Then the automatic toilet seat cover went around and I thought, “Oh my God, this is technology.”
That’s what I wanted to mention because I think that’s the opposite of what you mention in your book. You started with technology in Chicago, if I remember that.
Melissa: Yeah, I totally remember that. Back in 2010, I still hadn’t seen that too often, to be honest. But that was the kickoff to my adventure. A revolving toilet seat cover is pretty awesome.
Greg: Did you go from the technology to the street food? That was the second thing I wanted to bring up. Each of your chapters, at least in the first two chapters of the sample, has travel tips at the end. The first one was something like street food is awesome and don’t go to cafes with noisy kids. Do you do that in every chapter?
Melissa: Yeah, there are at least two or three tips at the end of every chapter. Some of them are serious, most of them are not, but you have to take them with a grain of salt. They’re just fun and funny.
JP: Like little life lessons from the chapter. Nice.
Melissa: Totally. “Don’t go drinking with elephants” is one of them. “Don’t squeeze the mangoes in the night market” is another. I’m sure whoever’s living in Asia can relate to that one.
JP: So this started out of your emails, the correspondence back and forth from home. Had you saved those, or did somebody save them for you and pass them on?
Melissa: The beauty of emails is all you have to do is go into your sent file and there they are. So I had them. Amazingly, a lot of people had printed them off for themselves because they wanted to read them as a collection.
For many years, I would revisit them and edit them a bit. But I have to be honest: part of me wishes I had just done a blog in 2010. I’d probably be sitting in a very different spot now. But the things we said in 2010 aren’t necessarily going to fly in 2025 or 2026, so there’s probably a good reason I didn’t do it back then. I did have to edit the odd thing here and there.
I also think we don’t really know how an experience is impacting us at the time. When I went back and read them, I could easily transport myself back to that time. I started editing them properly in 2024 when I decided I was going to make a book.
When you are reporting back to people what’s happening, I always did it with humor, emotion, empathy, sadness, and whatever I was feeling. I’m very transparent. But I don’t think we know in the moment what an experience is doing to us and for us.
I think it took me fifteen years to see the lessons and what I was actually getting out of it at the time. Maybe it’s because I’m older now and I see it differently, but you really do have to marinate in these things and give it time to see what happened to you on the other side. That was a really interesting part of this journey.
Greg: Tell us the title of the book so listeners can get hold of it while they’re watching or listening.
Melissa: The book is called The People You Meet. Interestingly enough, we all think we’ve come up with something amazing, and then I realized this is not the only book with that title. So it’s called The People You Meet, but the subtitle is Luxury, Leeches, Love and Lao Lao, with a Host of Interesting Characters in Southeast Asia. That’s what sets me apart.
JP: Luxury, leeches — what was the rest of it?
Melissa: Luxury, Leeches, Love and Lao Lao, with a Host of Interesting Characters in Southeast Asia. Lao lao is a rice whiskey drink in Laos that will pretty much set you on fire in fifteen seconds. It’s really potent. Have any of you been to Laos?
JP: Greg, did you ever?
Greg: I didn’t make it to Laos. It’s the one country in that area I didn’t visit. I figured I was living there and kept putting it off. After two years in Cambodia, I realized I was leaving and hadn’t been to Laos yet.
It was supposed to be the most relaxing, low-key place compared to the big cities and other places people travel. A lot of people I was teaching with would go to Laos for a quiet family vacation in nature.
Melissa: I would love to know how it’s different now. That was fifteen or sixteen years ago. My math is terrible. Of all those countries, Laos was the one where we felt like we had gone back in time the most. It felt authentic and quiet. Things weren’t as accessible, but that was part of what was cool.
Vietnam and Thailand were so progressive, busy, and fast. Laos felt like another world. There are pros and cons to that, but it was very beautiful.
I have to say Cambodia was my favorite country of all of them. There is something magical about that country and the people. Greg, you’ll know much more about it than I do because I was only there for about a month, but I found Cambodians so funny and charming. They have gone through absolute horrors and experienced way too much tragedy, but there is something magical about the Cambodian people that really affected me.
I got to do some cool things there because my partner had all these connections. I stayed at a luxury hotel in Siem Reap, and the manager took me to amazing projects for women, sewing schools, and centers for street kids. It really spoke to me.
I also have a friend who was born in Cambodia in 1977. I remember realizing I didn’t really know the history of Cambodia. I don’t think everyone does, to be honest. I don’t think it’s taught everywhere. I feel fortunate that I got to go there, learn, and see some of those things firsthand.
It also made me appreciate my friend and all his family had gone through. His family escaped to Thailand, lived in a refugee camp, and eventually the whole family escaped to Canada intact, which blows my mind.
There is so much about Cambodia. I could go on for an hour talking about that country by itself. Sometimes you go to places and they either speak to you or they don’t. Cambodia, for me, was magic.
Greg: I lived there for two years. I lived in Phnom Penh, the capital. Historically, because this was a hundred years ago in my mind — 2007 to 2009 — there were about one million people living there. During Water Festival, it turned into four million. I lived right on the river, on the Tonle Sap.
You mentioned “don’t drink with elephants.” I have a video of me sitting there. I went downstairs from my apartment one day. I was living in this terrible apartment. There were rats everywhere, and the outside was beat up, though the inside was great.
I went down to the cafe, sat there, and looked up. There was this elephant, I think named Simba, that always walked down the river to the wat. He was standing right in front of me eating fruit. I was typing away on my computer, looked up, and this elephant was just standing there with people surrounding him, eating the leftover fruit from the restaurant.
It was one of those moments. I pulled out my camera and took a picture. Cambodia, whether you spend a month there or a couple of days there, you can’t get away from the history, the poverty, the real people, and the atrocities that are still vibrant in that city.
That’s the joy of what we do as international teachers. We live in certain places for a long time, and then travel around the area and surrounding countries. It’s not just a trip. When I was in Cambodia, I went to Thailand, lived in Thailand for several months, went to Vietnam, China, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur — that whole area. How many countries are involved in this book?
Melissa: Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, and China. We spent almost a month in each country, but we were moving fast. We were on the move probably every two days. The longest we spent anywhere was three or four nights.
We had always traveled that way, but my partner had an agenda and meetings. It was research. It was exhausting. By the end, China was the last month for me, and I was done. It was too much. Amazing, but I got to a point where I wasn’t enjoying it anymore. I had seen too much and it was time to stop.
Greg: That’s a lot of bus rides. Can you choose one person from the book and give us a glimpse of someone who changed your life? The people you meet on travels, right? Tell us one.
Melissa: There are lots of people who come in and out of your life constantly when you’re on the road, which is part of the fun. But I would say there was a woman who changed the way I travel. I met her in northern Laos.
We had formed this little gang: myself, my partner, an amazing guy from Australia, and a mother and daughter we ran into. The mother was in her fifties, and she had her ten-year-old daughter with her. She had done more than anyone I’d ever met and had lived this amazingly adventurous life.
We were waiting to buy tickets to get on a boat to the next village and just chatting away. Then she stopped talking and stared at these two young women in their twenties with backpacks on. She said, “They need to go home. They’re done. It’s over.”
I had no idea what she was talking about. Then we had this amazing conversation about knowing when it’s time to go home. Some trips are not meant to go on and on. When you’ve seen and done enough, and you’re not enjoying it anymore, sometimes it’s time to call it a day.
That happened to me on that trip. At the end of four months, I was done. I couldn’t do it anymore. I wasn’t in a good space and I shouldn’t have been there. That conversation helped me make that decision. Since then, anytime I take a trip, I’m not gone for more than about two months because I know I’m prone to travel fatigue.
It also made me think about what happens on the road. There is so much judgment among travelers. We like to pretend we’re open-minded, free-spirited people, and we certainly can be, but we’ve all had those conversations with backpackers who say, “Well, I’ve been on the road for thirty-seven months and I have this number of stamps in my passport.”
There is always this one-upmanship in travel that no one talks about. It’s not fun. Travel can make you super vulnerable, and we sometimes question why we’re out there. There are highs and lows. It’s not all rainbows and butterflies.
It’s amazing and wonderful, but it comes with other stuff too. I’ve encountered that need to get one more country in your passport or stay out one month longer because the person beside you has been out longer. It’s really dumb.
We’re all built differently. We all have our own needs, wants, and reasons for being out there. That conversation opened up a lot of things for me. As long as you’re not hurting somebody and you’re there for the right reasons, it doesn’t matter how, what, when, where, or why people are out there. As long as they’re there. There’s your long-winded answer.
Greg: That woman looked at two backpackers and basically called it right there. She must have traveled a lot.
JP: She saw them exhausted? She saw them bickering? What did she see?
Melissa: She saw exhaustion. She saw a look on them that said they were no longer engaged. We talked about how it’s even a detriment to that country. If you’re not happy, you should not be in someone else’s country. It’s a privilege to be there. We’ve all seen travelers be rude to people in other countries or take out their exhaustion on them.
JP: That’s not just travelers. It’s good advice for people who live in a country too. How many of us know people who were two or three years ahead of us in a particular country, and you thought, “That person needs to go”? They were so negative about the country.
I remember cutting people out of my inner circle because I couldn’t be around that. If I was still enjoying the country, the adventure, and seeing the silver lining in difficult experiences, but they were only seeing the negative, it was time for them to move on. Hannah, can you recall people like that?
Hannah: Yeah. Not just people like that, but me as well. The last two years I lived in Kuwait were really hard on me, and on my husband, Jake. They were draining and exhausting. We had signed on to do two more years with our school, but then we thought, “Maybe just one more year and then we’ll call it.” That would give us a buffer year to figure out what was next.
It had gotten to the point where neither one of us wanted to get out of bed in the morning and go to school. We kept trying to be positive, of course, for our kids and our community. We loved our community. But you reach that point of burnout as an international teacher, and you just know you’re done.
JP: Greg, you had a similar thought.
Greg: I’m feeling it right now. Melissa, I’ve been here almost ten years, and I’m staying because I was trying to be the adult in my life. I told myself I’d stay for the big carrot at the end: the health insurance that’s provided if you stay ten years with this company, not the school. I’m at the very end of it.
In August, I’m supposed to go live with my father for a year and take a year of “dad-tirement.” It will be interesting in Florida. Being anywhere with my dad is great, but it’s difficult not to be negative all the time. Right now, I’m that guy people don’t want to talk to at school because I’m just negative.
JP: They’re like, “Stay away from him.”
We all reach our thresholds. I remember there was a certain country I won’t mention, but I hit that threshold probably five months into my three years there. Because I was an administrator, I was conscious of having people I could vent to while still spreading joy and happiness to everyone else. But I really needed a place where I could vent safely and say how much I didn’t like living in that country.
Melissa: Greg, where are you living now?
Greg: I’m in Saudi Arabia right now. It’s not the time I’ve been here; it’s the end of my stay. I think the outlet, as traveling teachers living in certain places, is to do what you do, Melissa: go travel.
Each of us on this show has this idea of travel as wanting to go do something spectacular, even alone sometimes. Maybe not Hannah right now, but at some point we all need to travel and have alone time.
I went to Indonesia by myself in December. Everyone asked who I was going with, and I said, “Nobody. I need my time.” I’ll make new friends. I’ll travel and meet amazing people.
I met a guy while diving in Indonesia. I won’t say his name because he wants to remain anonymous. He happened to be one of the drivers for the New Zealand All Blacks rugby team.
JP: All Blacks is New Zealand.
Greg: Right, New Zealand. I apologize. I get kangaroos and kiwis mixed up. He said, “Don’t say anything, Greg.” I said, “Who am I going to tell? We’re on a dive boat.” We hung out and dove together.
He showed me a fantastic picture of himself drinking out of this huge trophy. Australia and New Zealand have a big face-off every year, and the winner gets this trophy. He told me it holds fifty-three beers. It’s like the Stanley Cup of rugby. It was one of those brief travel moments I’ll never forget because he entrusted me with one of his stories, and I may never see him again.
That’s the people you meet on travels. Now, Melissa.
Hannah: I think for almost every trip, there’s someone I meet who I connect with or feel like I understand. I can’t think of one specific person right now. I will say, though, that I’ve traveled with friends, and sometimes that changes your perspective on who you’re traveling with. I’ve had those moments where I’m done. Enough traveling with you. I’m good.
JP: I think we all have stories like that. Sometimes you’re friends with someone, and you say, “Let’s go travel,” and you think it’s going to go well. Then it goes the complete opposite of well, and you come back hardly speaking.
That encourages me to travel by myself. When you travel by yourself, you’re more open to meeting people and making connections. Is that right, Melissa? Do you feel like having someone there with you all the time means you don’t really engage as much with other people?
Melissa: Not at all. I agree. I would much rather go by myself and meet new people. It’s also important to be away from anybody who knows you and to see how you react to people when nobody knows your story. There’s such freedom in that.
When you are with somebody, as I was in that book, often people don’t want to talk to you because you’re in this little bubble they feel is not penetrable. There are beautiful things about traveling with a partner, certainly, like having someone watch your bag while you go to the bathroom or run around looking for fruit. You can’t put a price tag on that. I do miss that sometimes.
But the people who walk across your path are phenomenal for the most part. That’s the real trip in itself.
JP: Greg?
Greg: I’m going to piggyback on that one. Here’s my quick story.
I was in the Philippines, I believe. The night before I was supposed to go on a dive trip, I had to stay in some little hotel. I think it was in Cebu, though the details aren’t that important.
There was a guy named Koba sitting there drinking a Coke or a beer. I’m a beer guy, so I grabbed a beer and sat down. There were only two of us at the hotel. We were off the beaten track at this tiny little place that had warm Coke and cold beer. Nobody was attending the desk, so I grabbed one, put my name down, left some money, and sat outside reflecting.
He started the conversation. He asked what I was doing there, and we did that traveler conversation. We didn’t get very far before we started talking about books. I said I was working on my book, trying to get my memories out and publish them. He said he had done that.
For the next three hours, he told me stories about his book, The Long Road Home: A Lifetime Journey. His theme was, “There is more in me.” I asked what the book was about, and he told me he went to Africa and ended up opening his home to battered women and young girls who had been thrown out of their tribes. I bought the book online the next day and read it throughout my dive trip.
This guy changed the world for so many people. I only knew him for about three hours, but that was years ago, and I still think about his theme: there is more in me. It makes me want to go out and change the world a little bit at a time. It keeps me going as a teacher and keeps me going off the beaten track, staying in little hotels instead of only luxury places. Do both. But he inspired me, and I’ll never forget the guy.
Reading a little bit of your book inspired me to go back to other authors I’ve met, especially travel authors. They relate to our podcast not just because we’re teachers, but because we are teachers and travelers. We’re not tourists.
Melissa: Another book you might want to look up: I used to have a radio show, a travel show, and one of my guests rode his bike home from China to Canada. It took two years. He was a teacher like you guys in an international school and had been in China for a while. He decided he would come back, but he wasn’t a cyclist. He got a terrible bike and knew nothing about bikes. That’s a whole other part of the story.
He rode through about forty-some countries. Obviously, there was a plane involved at some point. His book is called The Power of Saying Hello, and his name is Mark Quattrocchi. I might be butchering that, to be honest.
His message was that everything changes as soon as you say hello to somebody, whether you can speak the language or not. He was going through countries the media would certainly advise against, and things we see in the news are often not how they really are, as the three of you know.
Some of the places made to sound the scariest were the nicest to him. People took him in, gave him food, gave him shelter, and got him on his way. These were people who had nothing, and it was all because he smiled and said hello. That changed everything for him and all the encounters he had.
It’s a powerful book. I find that even in Toronto. I was going to book tours and festivals all summer, and when you look at the general public, sometimes people look miserable. As soon as you say hello, everything changes. They smile back and become different people than they were thirty seconds ago.
It’s a message for everyday life as well as travel. Saying hello is really sometimes all we need to do.
Greg: Episode 9 of our show, I interviewed a guy named Grayton Hazenberg. He wrote a book called Pedaling to Kailash, or something like that. I’d have to go back and check the show notes. His interview is just audio, but it’s the same kind of story.
He’s a cyclist in a bicycle group, and he’s traveled the world by bike. He went up through Tibet on a bike. It’s crazy amazing when you meet people who have traveled like that. He’s been to around 130 countries, but it’s not one-upmanship. He wants to see the world. He says the same thing: if you’re on a bicycle, you’re not threatening. You can meet real people.
We’ve all met real people sitting on a porch, balcony, or bus. Maybe you speak their language, maybe you don’t. That’s where the smile and hello come in: to get them out of their little world and share the joy you have.
I can’t wait to read the rest of your book. I’m glad to have you on as an author because these travel stories are what keep us together. That’s why we have our show. It’s about traveling and sharing the best, not necessarily the worst, but the reality.
JP: This is why we gather: because we can share those stories without thinking, “Am I oversharing? Am I talking too much about my life internationally?” We all live internationally, so we accept that. We’re very open to each other’s stories.
Melissa: That’s another thing I like about traveling. When you’re at home — here I am in Toronto — there are very few people you can have these talks with. But when you’re on the road, you meet like-minded people. It doesn’t sound like you’re bragging. You’re meeting them on the same level, and that’s so rejuvenating and refreshing. That’s part of the beauty of these connections.
JP: Exactly. Because you’re abroad, you’re going to talk about your stories. Hannah, go ahead.
Hannah: Melissa, I don’t know if you know this, but I grew up as a TCK in Brazil. When I would go back to the U.S., I would try to relate to my friends there and say, “In Brazil, I had something similar,” or “In Brazil, this happened.” My friends would say, “Stop talking about that. You’re bragging.” And I’d think, “No, I’m just trying to relate.”
It’s hard when you’ve had all these experiences, whether it’s international travel or living abroad, to relate to people back home.
Melissa: Totally.
Greg: Some people don’t leave their county, province, or city limits. I respect people like that. But I wear two different hats when I go home. When I meet people from my home area who have lived there a long time, they cannot relate to my stories. So I wear the hat of the local. We talk about the gas station that disappeared, or “Do you remember when this road used to be here?” I let them ramble on, and I can relate to that.
But when I meet somebody who travels a lot, it’s a whole different conversation. It’s not one-upping, and it’s not bragging. It’s just the way we live. Great point, Hannah.
JP: I look at it like ping pong. It’s like, “That made me think of this story. Now it’s your turn.” Then that makes someone else think of another story. It’s a friendly game of verbal ping pong. It’s never, “I have a better story than that.” It’s sharing and going down each other’s paths of memories.
Greg: The memories trigger each other. The minute Melissa told her stories about Southeast Asia, she triggered a thousand memories.
JP: Melissa, can you tell us a little bit about how you made the transition from emails into a published book?
Melissa: When I came home, I knew there was something there because I was lucky to have positive reactions from friends and family. They always wanted more, so I knew there was a story there. But I wasn’t sure whether to do it.
Then I took a year off in 2023 and did some traveling. One thing led to another. I came back and did a session of stand-up comedy, which was a real adventure. From that, all of a sudden, I thought, “I’m going to publish this book.” It had been sitting in the back of my head for fifteen years.
I knew if I didn’t do it, it was going to haunt me forever. Luckily, I had a friend who used to work as an editor for Canadian Living, which was a big magazine in Canada. He’s an amazing travel writer. I sent it to him, and he was my compass. I said, “If you think it’s good, I’ll go for it. If you don’t, then I’m done.”
I had come across a publisher during my radio show, and he said, “This is a great manuscript, but no one will read it. We don’t do that in Canada.” So I decided I wasn’t going to spend another ten or fifteen years being rejected. I was going to do it.
My friend liked it and told me to go for it. Then it took me about a year and a half to edit it properly, and I self-published it.
It’s not an easy feat. Doing a book is hard. You have to sacrifice a lot of life, time, and emotion. Then when you actually put the thing out, you want to throw up for about three weeks because you think, “What have I just done?”
My book is pretty vulnerable. It’s very honest. I do not pull any punches about how I feel, where I’m at in my life, or what I’m seeing and doing. That can be terrifying. But I was at a point where I thought there was something there, and I wasn’t going to spend a decade being rejected. So I did it. People really love it. Friends and family will tell you they love it, but when strangers tell you they love it, that feels pretty awesome.
JP: That’s more validating.
Greg: I appreciate you sharing how you took it to publication because a lot of our listeners lead exciting lives. A lot of us need to step back, think about it, and record it, whether by voice or writing.
Many of our listeners are living overseas, teaching, living in different cultures, and moving through multiple countries. They say, “I should write a book about this,” or people tell them they should. I think they should. Do it.
It’s great to hear a success story that you got to the publishing stage because there’s a huge difference between writing a book and publishing a book. There’s a difference between “it’s in process” and “it took me twenty years.” It took you fifteen years to write the thing, and finally you put your heart into it.
Melissa: Yeah, it’s hard. It’s different. But I think the difference is whether not doing it will bother you. If you can imagine a life where you don’t do it and you’re fine with that, there’s your answer. But if you feel like something will be off forever if you don’t do it, then you have to do it.
JP: That’s what I’ve heard from authors. It’s that compulsion of, “I must get this out.” It has to be out of me, published, and then I can let it go. You hear that compulsion a lot. If you don’t feel compelled to do it, then it’s probably not meant to happen.
Melissa: Yeah. And writing is awful. As much as I love to write, it’s a love-hate relationship. Anybody who writes will tell you that. When you’re in the zone, if you’re a natural writer, it’s probably the most authentic version of yourself. For me, it is, in terms of being creative, funny, and storytelling. But to sit down and say, “This is what I’m doing today,” is not easy.
Hannah: I was recently featured on a podcast for TCKs, and I talked about how I would love to do an entire book series for my boys about places they’ve been. It would tell a little bit about the country and their travels to places we’ve lived and visited. But it hasn’t gone into fruition yet. It’s still an idea, things I’ve picked up on now that I’m a parent of two little kids who travel.
Melissa: That’s a great idea.
JP: That would be a beautiful series.
Greg: The only answer is to write. I think Melissa figured this out, and I figured it out too. Write little bits and pieces when things happen and you’re inspired. Maybe you don’t make it into a book right away, but when you are ready, the details, memories, and triggers are there.
JP: What’s amazing is that we all have these books in us. How many times have we been told by people back home reading our emails, “You should write a book”? I’ve heard that for thirty years, but it’s never been a compulsion for me. I’ve never woken up and thought, “I must write this.” So it remains unwritten.
Melissa: Good. You’re lucky. Stick with that. I’ve started writing a second book, and it’s really hard. This morning, as soon as I woke up, my first thought was, “I have to add this part about these two men who I think were trying to get me to smuggle drugs for them.” That was the first thing that popped into my head, and then I had to go work that in. It’s a real love-hate relationship, that vocation.
JP: While we’re talking about writing books, I once sat in on an adult workshop at one of my international schools. We had a visiting author, and she asked if I’d be interested in attending an evening workshop at someone’s house.
I went out of curiosity because I grew up as a big Stephen King fan. I always thought if I wrote something, it would be a horror story. I don’t remember the author’s name well, but she said things that resonated with me. One was that if you can think it, you can write it. You just need to get into the routine.
She went through her day and talked about being more active in the morning, so that was when she wrote. She blocked out time. It resonated with me, but it didn’t compel me to write anything. Still, it was interesting to hear from an author with many books behind her saying, “This is the vocation. Writing is my life.”
Melissa: A lucky one. Lucky and unlucky.
Greg: I have two questions. I’ll ask one, and it will piggyback on what you said. Do you have a quick story or anecdote about police or customs? Something that won’t get you in trouble, but an interesting police or customs story?
Melissa: Police, no, thankfully. Customs, yes. We had a lot of interesting border crossings in that part of the world: Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, China. Some were by river, some by little canoe, and some were terrifying.
I remember going into Vietnam. I think we were leaving Cambodia and going into Vietnam, and we had been promised a bus on the other side. My partner and I were the only people on a bus. Those border crossings can be in the middle of nowhere, out in the countryside.
I remember not having anyone to meet us on the other side. They didn’t know what to do with us. Nobody spoke English. Some strange man showed up, sat beside us, put a briefcase beside us, and then walked away. Those situations are very unnerving when you can’t speak the language and no one knows where you are.
When we went into China, that was also interesting. It was an easy crossing, although they did look through my bag. Something showed up on the monitor, and it turned out to be black sandals. But to them it was, “What is this?” Those things are a little terrifying.
What happened when we got into China was that we took a bus and arrived in Kunming very late at night, which is never fun. When you’re with someone, it’s a little better. We pulled into this bus station, and we couldn’t see anything. No taxis, nothing.
You all know what it’s like when you arrive in a new country. No matter how much you travel, you still don’t know the lay of the land. Everything you’ve learned goes out the window, and suddenly you’re vulnerable.
We got off the bus, and instantly this guy came up to us. He spoke English and told us he was a local celebrity, that we could trust him, that there were no taxis anywhere, and that he would get us where we needed to go.
My partner and I were no strangers to jumping into the backs of cars with random men. We’re still alive, so we survived it, but we did it a lot, stupidly. That’s part of the fun, let’s be honest. We didn’t see any taxis, so we went with him.
We got into the car with this “celebrity” and a large driver who didn’t speak any English. We pulled off down the street, and immediately there was a line of taxis. We were like, “If we had just figured it out.”
Then they stopped the car suddenly and started screaming at each other in a language we didn’t understand. The celebrity looked at us and said, “Give me something to remember you by.” I lost it. I thought, “This is it. We’re going to die.”
Then he got out of the car, and we were left with the driver, who we couldn’t communicate with. We felt like we were driving farther and farther from the city. In my head, I thought they were going to take us to some industrial garage, chop us up, sell us, or something awful. I started crying and having a panic attack. It was midnight.
My partner was more well-traveled than I was, and he was always my gauge. If he reacted, then I knew it was bad. He was also reacting, so I thought, “Oh my God.”
Then, lo and behold, the driver took us to the hostel and we were fine. But it was terrifying. That’s my scariest border story, though it doesn’t technically have much to do with the border. Entering a new country late at night can be really terrifying.
JP: More often than not, we find people who are kind-hearted and good. Even in situations where we think, “This is going to be my last trip or my last day on earth,” everything turns out fine.
Melissa: Totally. Everything’s fine. They always say ninety percent of people are good.
We were in a taxi in Nicaragua once. The driver turned off onto a dirt road, took all the signs off the car that would make you believe it was a taxi, threw them in the trunk, and again we thought, “Okay, this is it.” I’ve got to stop jumping into the backseat of cars, I think.
JP: Random cars. We do have a second question. What are three things that have to be in your carry-on when you are heading out on a trip?
Melissa: Toilet paper and soap, because I spent a month in China and they were never around. Sunscreen, because that’s huge for me. And a hat. Those are my things.
JP: So sun protection and butt protection. I understand that exactly. My hat is always in my carry-on because I cannot lose it. I’ve had the same hat since 2006. I was given a Tilley hat as a graduation gift from my best friend and her mom, and that hat has been everywhere with me for twenty years.
For sun protection, I usually take a long sleeve. I don’t like sunscreen, so I wear long sleeves. And definitely toilet paper or napkins. You go to a restaurant, they give you three napkins, and I only use one. The other two are going into my bag because I never know when I’ll need them.
Melissa: Totally.
Greg: Melissa, you need to listen to episode eight of our show. Friends of mine, Scott and Tara, went on a South American trip with me through Guyana and Suriname. We have a river story — a border crossing over a river where the bus doesn’t show up. We were with their four-month-old infant. Scott had been all over South America, but it’s a very interesting story. Their daughter is now almost college age. It’s a great story, similar to yours. Not better by any means, but very parallel. Ping pong back to you.
Melissa: That’s funny. I’m curious, where in Mexico are you, JP? I love Mexico. It’s my favorite.
JP: North of Querétaro, in the mountains and the desert.
Melissa: What state is that?
JP: It’s Querétaro. The city has about a million people, and in Mexico a million people is okay. It’s a mid-sized city about three hours north of Mexico City by highway. When I go back to Canada, I take a bus to Mexico City and then fly direct to Toronto. So it’s a three-hour bus and a five-hour flight, and I’m home.
That’s one of the reasons this has been a great hub for me. Mexico City is massive, heading toward twenty-five million people, but Querétaro is still somewhat undiscovered. It’s not overrun by retirees who don’t speak Spanish. It’s still very much authentic living.
Melissa: How long have you been there?
JP: I’m coming up on my third year here. I always forget because I did two years in Guadalajara first. I’ll be five years in Mexico in August. I’m very excited because I’ll be getting my permanent resident card in August. In July, I’ll transfer it over, and then no more visas or worrying about going to consulates or embassies to renew visas.
Greg: Wow, that’s a big thing.
Melissa: That’s incredible. I love Mexico.
JP: I’ll ping pong that back to Melissa. Final thoughts on this episode and your book, if you don’t mind mentioning the title again.
Melissa: The book is called The People You Meet: Luxury, Leeches, Love and Lao Lao, with a Host of Interesting Characters in Southeast Asia by Melissa Rodway. Greg, you’ll have to try lao lao next time you’re in that part of the world. But I warned you.
I’ve really enjoyed speaking with all of you. It’s always fun to talk to like-minded people.
I think people like my book, and the things I post on Instagram and on my website, because I’m very normal. Social media is the devil in so many ways. There are so many people who look perfect and beautiful and not sweaty. Normal people cannot relate to those images.
I like to say to people that I’m a very normal person who loves adventure. It doesn’t mean I always know what I’m doing. I make mistakes all the time. I was in Colombia last year and tipped a cab driver way too much because I hadn’t figured out the currency yet.
People sometimes think that when they look at or talk to people who travel a lot, those people have it all figured out and are so wise. It’s such BS. I’m still learning all the time. I’m still figuring it out. I’m very human.
Some people think they can’t be adventurous or travel because they don’t look the part. My message is that it’s for everyone and all of us. We’re all fumbling through it. There’s a reason we do it: the love of meeting new people and new cultures, and being away from our own normal. I think it’s for everybody, no matter what that looks like for you.
JP: Fantastic. Hannah, final thoughts?
Hannah: This has been a fun-filled episode. Thank you, Melissa, for coming on and sharing your love of travel with those who love travel just as much.
I’m currently in the middle of a three-week excursion with my kids in Asia, so I understand the feeling of knowing your limit. I haven’t hit it yet, thankfully, but I’ve been doing this a while now.
Melissa: What country are you in right now? Sri Lanka?
Hannah: Yes, we’re in Sri Lanka currently. We started in Malaysia and spent a week in Kuala Lumpur. That wasn’t our plan, but our school gave us an extra week of spring break because of everything that’s been going on.
I live and work in Karachi, Pakistan, and they told us to take an extra week of spring break. So we thought, “Now that we’ve got an extra week, let’s go somewhere.” We went to Kuala Lumpur for five or six days. Then we started our actual spring break plan, which is Sri Lanka. After that, we’re going to Phuket and Bangkok. We’re doing a little bit of this, that, and the next thing.
Melissa: Awesome. That’s great.
JP: Greg, final thoughts?
Greg: I’m jealous of travel right now. I’m at a point in my life where I don’t travel very much, mainly because I’m going back to see family. That doesn’t mean I don’t travel. I was just in Indonesia for Christmas. But I’m not traveling right now, and I won’t be traveling for this Eid break. I’ll be going back to the U.S. for a year of dad-tirement.
I’m envious. I’m sort of living vicariously through Melissa’s book, Hannah’s travels, and JP down in Mexico. I feel like my life is not exciting. One of the dangers for me is that when I travel so much, it becomes normal. I’ve stayed here for ten years, and I’ve done a lot of travel, but not as much as in the past.
Right now, I’m jealous, and I look forward to making more stories. Anyone listening to this: get out and travel. Just do it. Go. It’s your happy place, probably, if you’re listening to this. Travel, travel, travel.
JP: Especially nowadays. When Greg and I started teaching overseas, my very first trip outside the country I had moved to was with a ten-year-old photocopy of a Lonely Planet. I went and still had a great trip, even though the buses weren’t right and the hotel had cockroaches.
These days, with the internet, phones, translators, and everything else, travel is so much easier and more accessible. Don’t come up with excuses. Save the money, get the money, and go spend the money. Then write about it if you are compelled.
Greg: Write about it if you feel compelled.
JP: Well, I want to thank our guest, Melissa Rodway, who has the book The People You Meet. I will not go with the subtitle because it’s a tongue twister, but please check it out. We’ll have it in our show notes, and we’ll also add her website and Instagram.
Thank you for coming onto the show. I want to thank my co-host Hannah in Sri Lanka on holiday with her family. Thank you for joining us from that hotel. And I want to thank Greg, wearing his Austrian jacket that he got on some holiday, I’m sure.
Greg: In Canada, they call it a jacket, but we call it a sweater.
JP: Okay, a jacket-sweater. You can find Greg’s books on Amazon: Finding the Right Fit and The Best Kept Secret in Education: International Teaching. Go check those out.
I’m Jaclyn from JP Mint Consulting here in Mexico, and I want to thank you all for joining us for another great episode. Yay!
Greg: Awesome. I’ll hit record now and we can just do the whole thing over again, okay, Melissa? That’s our running joke. Did you guys do that in radio too?
Melissa: Sure.