ITP - 150: Learning Support, Inclusion, and Finding the Right School for Your Family

Greg:
All right. Welcome everybody to the International Teacher Podcast. I am Greg the Single Guy, and today with me is my co-host JP Mint. How are you doing, JP?
JP:
Hey, good morning from Mexico.
Greg:
She was just complaining about how early it is in Mexico. It’s like 7 a.m. It’s about four o’clock in the Middle East. And Christian, our new guest, is coming to us from Singapore. What time is it there, Christian?
Christian:
It’s 9 p.m. here.
JP:
Welcome!
Greg:
Past my bedtime. No wonder I’m tired.
Well, welcome to the show, Christian. Let’s start with a little elevator pitch: how you got into education, international teaching, and we’ll let you fly with it from there.
Christian:
Thanks. I started in international education about 10 years ago. Before that, I was teaching in the US, in North Carolina. Greg, you were talking about going back to Florida, correct? So a little bit north of you over there.
I was working there for a couple of years and really looking for a change. I kept switching schools and positions. I started in kindergarten and then went into special education after that. I was thinking about moving to Washington, D.C. or somewhere different.
My father was actually the one who suggested looking into international education because he was also a teacher. He was curious if I had heard about it before.
I had worked with one teacher who had taught in Egypt for a little while, but that was the only foray into international education I had heard of. Like a lot of people, I thought international education just meant teaching English overseas.
Greg:
Yeah, in the bush somewhere. Teach them English. Teach those kids how to speak English, right?
Christian:
Right. I didn’t realize there were real schools. But when I looked into it, I realized, wow, I could literally pick and choose where I wanted to teach, and the world was kind of my oyster.
I signed up with one of the recruiting agencies. I think it was Search. I got to put my feelers out there and got really lucky getting a chance to work at SAS in Shanghai, China.
At the time, I remember thinking, “Wow, this is really intense,” because I think I did seven interviews before actually getting the position.
Then I went over there, and my first international experience was going right to Shanghai. I was thrown into the deep end a little bit with the international experience, different language, and everything. I remember going to the local grocery market and being super overwhelmed, thinking, “I’m never going to come back here again.”
Then that became the place I went for every grocery trip.
I never really looked back after that. I realized this is really the place to be if you want to stay in education, in my opinion.
JP:
The best kept secret in education.
Greg:
It’s so funny you say that. It is the best kept secret. Back in 2001, when I started, there were no books about it, no websites. I found out about it at a cocktail party. Someone just mentioned it.
It’s funny that your dad mentioned it to you, even though he’s a teacher. My parents had no clue. They thought I was going to go off and die somewhere in Central America. They didn’t realize I was talking about schools actually doing what we do in the States, just in a different country.
So that’s fascinating. How did your dad hear about it?
Christian:
I think he had worked with other people who went overseas. But I think the big reason he told me about it is because he wanted me to try it out for him.
A year after I was overseas, he went overseas as well.
JP:
Oh, live vicariously.
Greg:
No kidding. Where did your dad go?
Christian:
He ended up in Qatar. His school was a little different. It was part of the Qatar Foundation, but it was a school for Qatari cadets only. He did a 13th-year kind of program, almost like a community college program. He was a librarian for them for eight years.
JP:
And that would have been males only?
Christian:
Yes, males only. Then he switched to one that was open to both, same program.
He has been trying to semi-retire in Vietnam this year, but he realized he would still like to work a little bit more. So now he’s going to be in Cambodia again next year.
Greg:
Get your dad on here to talk about retirement and not letting go. Make sure you give your dad an invitation. That would be great: two generations.
JP:
We’ve never had two generations.
Christian:
You’ve never had that? That would be cool.
JP:
All right, ITP folks. Stay tuned for Christian’s dad to come on the show.
Christian:
Definitely.
Like we talked about, it’s the best kept secret. But JP, I’m curious from your end: do you still feel it’s a secret, or do you feel like it has become more mainstream now and there are lots of people applying?
JP:
I still think it’s a secret. The number of people I met in Toronto this February at the ISS fair who were new to this and had no idea — they had just heard something and thought, “Well, we’ll sign up.”
They were coming from Phoenix, Portland, all over, and for many of them it was their first time in Canada and first time seeing snow. They didn’t know what to expect.
So I still think it is a secret. I mention it here in Mexico, and nobody knows what I’m talking about. I say I’m helping teachers go overseas, and they ask, “To teach English?” They always think it must be ESL teaching.
What’s your theory, Greg?
Greg:
I have a theory. Mark my words here, Christian.
When I went through education in the States to become a teacher, the university fed into the elementary and middle schools around that little district. The professors prepped you and got you into classrooms in that area. Out of 150 graduates, maybe one of us left the district. That was me, and it was considered crazy.
It’s a machine. The universities feed the schools in that area. They need to keep giving teachers to those schools. It’s not really in their best interest to get us overseas and take us out of that machine, because we are the greatest teachers, the ones who end up leaving, right?
Christian:
Right. Most adventurous.
JP:
Toot our own horn.
Christian:
I’ve been talking to some friends who have been applying the past couple of years, and they’ve said it seems more competitive getting into schools. But it could also be that there are fewer openings, or maybe everyone is applying for the same schools.
JP:
There’s a theory that if we’re all applying for the top 2% of schools, then that’s why it feels crowded. It feels competitive because we’re all looking for the top tier.
But international schools are growing. There are more and more international schools every single year. They’re not closing; they’re expanding.
Greg:
My theory goes hand in hand with that.
When you decide to go overseas and teach, you’re looking at countries where you’d like to go. It’s not like applying to a district and being placed in a school. Now you feel like you have a choice. People choose places they think are like vacations. They choose the Caribbean, or Europe, or Mexico.
You go to a job fair and see long lines in front of the European schools, not the difficult little tiny schools. People want the big salaries and the great stories they hear about on our show. They don’t necessarily realize you often have to put your foot in the door and work toward that.
Most of us had to work our way through. I started at a hardship school in a developing country. You stay with it, and years later you can start looking at top-tier schools.
Of course, there are people who get that perfect opportunity and go to Shanghai or Singapore for their first school. The rest of us are waiting in line or waiting to interview.
I agree. Schools are growing at an exponential rate across the world, and applicants are being a little picky. And we should be, because you need to find the right fit.
JP:
Finding the Right Fit at Amazon.com. Second edition out.
Greg:
Yeah, anyway. It’s a difficult puzzle. If you look at all the schools and all the people who go to job fairs, you’re going to feel that roller coaster of emotion because you want your top pick.
But a lot of people are passing up that super genuine little school on some island or in the middle of somewhere they never thought of going.
JP:
Speaking of which, Christian, have you been to a job fair? Did you get to one for Shanghai, or were those seven interviews all online?
Christian:
I’ve never actually been to a job fair. I’ve done three international schools, but always through a recruiting agency, never at a fair.
For Shanghai, most of it was over the phone. They didn’t even use Skype. It was all phone interviews, which was tricky in its own right. I’m usually good at interviews because I can read people’s faces and adjust based on reactions. On the phone, that’s really hard because I can’t base it on body language.
JP:
And there might be a lag, so you’re almost talking over CB radio.
Christian:
Right. So that one was seven phone interviews.
After Shanghai, where I taught early years for three years, I went to Hong Kong. I was on Search, and I was kind of headhunted by the principal there. That was also more about being a male in early childhood.
That’s why I’ve been able to get into some bigger schools. A lot of principals like having a male in the early years. That has been my fit and my jolt a lot of the time.
JP:
They want to diversify.
Greg:
Absolutely. Me too. I’m elementary.
And we are amazing teachers. The early years male teachers I’ve met tend to be outstanding. I’m always amazed. I’m boisterous, but some of them are like Mr. Rogers, super quiet with the kids.
So you went from Shanghai to Hong Kong, and you like the East?
Christian:
I do. I’m a big fan of Asia in general. I don’t really have any interest in leaving this continent or this area.
Greg:
And how long were you in Hong Kong?
Christian:
Four years. I like to tell people I went to Hong Kong during the protests, and then I stayed all through COVID in Hong Kong.
Actually, Hong Kong during COVID wasn’t that bad because we never fully closed. There was never a full lockdown. We went in waves. Based on the numbers, things would tighten up or open up.
JP:
I was in Guangzhou during COVID, and I had a friend living in Hong Kong. He was able to hike in the mountains and things. I was like, “Oh my gosh.” He showed me his view.
I moved to Guangzhou thinking, “I’m near Macau, Shenzhen, Zhuhai, and Hong Kong. All these little city escapes.”
Greg:
She just wanted to get on the ferry, and they wouldn’t let her.
Christian:
I had my beautiful mountains.
JP:
Were you able to get down to beaches and hiking trails?
Christian:
Hiking and mountains, yes. That was great. They did close the beaches, but only the managed city beaches. The non-city beaches that weren’t managed by the park system were still open, so a lot of people went to those instead.
I really loved Hong Kong. It’s an amazing city. Beautiful. But I was there for four years.
JP:
And then from there?
Christian:
I went to Singapore after that. I’ve been here now three years.
I started off in early years, and then this year I switched to grade four learning support. That has been quite a big adjustment. I was an early years teacher for about 15 years, and now I’ve jumped up to grade four.
Let me tell you, the curriculum jump from early years to grade four, especially in math, has been a big challenge for me. I’ve had to Google a couple of things.
JP:
And nine-year-olds now.
Christian:
Yeah, nine- and ten-year-olds.
Greg:
Our little boy’s growing up.
JP:
You’re in learning support, and this is something we don’t get to talk about a lot on the show.
For the ITP crowd, especially people still teaching back in the States, Canada, or the UK: yes, we have special education overseas, but learning support teachers often need to cover a wide range of needs. They may need to be diagnosticians, flexible with push-in and pull-out support, sometimes ESL, ADHD, autism spectrum — the whole gamut. Is that right?
Christian:
At our school, luckily, we have an EAL department. They work with students who are still learning English or need extra language support. We don’t work with those students.
We do work with a wide variety of learning needs: ADHD, autism, and other neurodiversities. There are quite a lot of students with those needs.
We do observations and different assessments in school. Our school doesn’t have a psychologist, so we have to consult out for formal assessments or diagnoses. That is always a conversation with parents.
Depending on the school, learning support can be drastically different. This is the first time I’m not at an American school. My past two schools were Shanghai American and Hong Kong International.
Friends of mine at Singapore American often have a learning support teacher per grade, sometimes more than one, plus a counselor per grade. They usually have a psychologist. At my school, it’s just me for the grade four team, and there are only four counselors for the whole school. We may have an in-house psychologist this year, but I’m not sure if we’ve always had that.
So learning support can look very different depending on where you are and how big the school is.
When you talk about inclusion, and what a school can actually provide for students and which students they can accept, that can also vary drastically.
Most schools can handle mild needs: students who have light learning needs or are behind in some areas but can still be in the mainstream classroom 90 to 95% of the time. Most international schools can accept those students.
But when you start getting into moderate to severe needs, the pool of available options gets very limited. Some countries have no services available in international schools for those students.
Greg:
Some countries are culturally against it. Sometimes the culture is, “My child doesn’t need any help. I don’t want to label them.”
I’m being realistic. There are countries and families where they’ll say, “My child doesn’t have any problems.” If the school doesn’t accept them, doesn’t provide anything, and the child gets kicked out, they just sort of ignore the issue.
That’s worst-case scenario, but it’s out there.
We’re lucky to be in schools that have special needs support, learning support, and language support. I want to thank you for differentiating between learning support and language support. Some kids don’t fall neatly into pigeonholes. Language support can be needed too, but special needs, to me, means social-emotional needs, diagnoses, and things like that.
I have one question. Where you are right now, are there a lot of opportunities for families to get a diagnosis for their child if they need it?
Christian:
Yes. Singapore is one of the more inclusive places overseas, especially in Asia.
There are more options for students here. There are a lot of psychology centers that families can choose from. When we recommend a family get an educational psychology report, or ed psych report, which can be used to diagnose ADHD or autism, we can give them four or five different centers that can work with them.
There are lots of therapy centers too: occupational therapy, speech therapy, and so on. There are a lot more options in Singapore for families with children who have needs.
Greg:
The reason I ask is because I had an unfortunate experience at a school where I worked part-time in the special needs department. My immediate supervisor was diagnosing students and telling parents, “Your kid has autism,” or “Your kid has this.”
It was so beyond my ethics for a layperson who had no training, no doctoral program, and not even the experience to back up what she was saying. She had gone online, read a couple of articles, and that was it.
It turned me off to the system. I reached out and told the educational psychologist. We actually had someone who could make diagnoses or arrange for professionals to do it.
Ever since that experience, I’ve guarded the fact that if somebody has a diagnosis, where is it from? Where’s the paperwork? Where’s the IEP? Where’s the official diagnosis? Where can they get one if they don’t have it? Before we have a further discussion.
I know we’re getting into detailed special needs, but I have a big heart for this. I didn’t mean to go off too much.
Christian:
Inclusion has been a buzzword a lot recently. More schools are talking about it, and more international schools are talking about inclusion. I think SENIA has been a big part of that.
JP:
Special Education Network and Inclusion Association, or something like that.
Christian:
I think so. I know you’ve interviewed one of the head people from SENIA before. They’ve done a great job of getting the word out to international schools and encouraging them to look at their policies and really try to be more inclusive.
They have a great conference every year that a lot of international school teachers attend.
I think there is still a long way to go.
When I was living in Hong Kong, I adopted my son from Hong Kong. I’m a single father overseas. He was very young, and over time, as an educator and someone who worked in special education in the States, I started noticing milestones he wasn’t meeting.
Around a year or a year and a half, we got him assessed. He does have autism. He is autistic and still fairly pre-verbal. He can speak some, but he also uses an AAC device, a tablet, to communicate.
While I was living in Hong Kong, it was fairly good for special needs. There were not as many schools, but there were a lot of therapies and services available for families, which was good.
But I realized I was going to have to leave when I wanted him to start school because the school I was at would not have been able to support him with his level of needs. He has more moderate needs.
That’s when I started researching international schools that can support children with moderate to severe needs. It’s actually a fairly small list. Internationally, when I made my list, I found maybe about 45 schools.
JP:
In the whole world, that doesn’t sound like a lot.
Greg:
No, that doesn’t sound good. What a lot of work that was for you.
Christian:
There are probably some I missed because the list is based on school websites, word of mouth, and different things like that.
I started with a partner at first who made a beautiful spreadsheet, but then he kind of went away, and I’ve kept it going and updated it.
I’ve also partnered with another person from SENIA. Together we run a Facebook page for teachers who have children with special needs, to try to build a community.
Greg:
What’s the name of that page? Let’s plug it while we’re hot here.
Christian:
Now you’re putting me on the spot.
It’s called SENIA Teachers on the Move Internationally with Neurodivergence and Disability. It’s a very long title. But if people search “SENIA Teachers on the Move Internationally,” it usually comes up on Facebook.
Greg:
We’ll put a link in the show notes and highlight that in case there are people who need it.
JP:
People might not even know this support exists.
Greg:
That’s what we’re here for. That’s why Christian is here. Let’s shout it out.
JP:
So Christian, you started this list and had some people helping add to it. Then you contacted those schools or kept them in mind during your job search?
Christian:
Yes, I kept them in mind during the job search.
The list is available on the Facebook page for other families to see. It has the schools, salary range usually, what specific services they offer, and tuition.
A lot of schools that offer extra services have higher tuition because of those services. Even if you are a teacher and you have a school place for your child, you may have to top up the extra tuition yourself. You might have to pay another $9,000 or $10,000 out of pocket for the extra services.
We’re trying to offer all the information in the list.
As I was interviewing, I knew which schools I wanted to target based on those services. But that’s where it gets tricky. Even schools with more services for higher-needs or moderate-needs students may not have space in their programs because the programs are highly subscribed or full.
There is quite a large demand for these spaces. Also, some schools don’t necessarily have spaces for teachers’ children because teachers’ children are “free” in a sense. They would rather have families pay the higher tuition for those spots. So it gets tricky.
I’ve connected with other families with children who have moderate to higher needs. For many of them, when schools found that out, the interviews stopped. So even though the schools are inclusive, it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re inclusive for incoming teachers. It’s very tricky.
Greg:
What a difficult interview. Wow.
I’m the optimist, so at least we can say there are schools that offer support for moderate and higher needs around the world. If you’re an international teaching couple, or single, and you have a child with special needs, don’t just give up on international teaching.
On the other hand, the reality is that it’s much more of a hunt. Your interviews are going to be that much more difficult. That’s probably not new to people, except for the fact that there are schools available with special needs support.
JP:
And there’s this spreadsheet they can access through Christian’s Facebook group. That’s fantastic that you’ve created that resource and are willing to share it.
Greg:
He’s living it too.
Christian:
What we tell people is that you just need one school. If you can find the one position that works for your family, don’t be discouraged by the ones that say no.
At the school I’m at now, they can’t meet the needs of my son in my school, but they pay tuition for any school in the city. Since they can’t meet his needs, they pay for his schooling somewhere else. That’s why I was able to come here and take this role.
JP:
So that’s even a second tier of schools. There’s one tier that has the support in the school, and another tier that says, “We can’t offer the support, but we can pay tuition for you to send your child somewhere else.” That opens it up as well.
Christian:
It does. I’ve only found that here. There are two or three schools here that will do that, and it seems to be a Singapore-only thing from what I’ve found so far.
The other schools usually have to provide services within their own program.
There are some really great ones, like International School of Beijing. They have a really good special needs program. The International School of Brussels was one of the first in the world to do it, and their program is very robust. There are quite a few in Africa as well, like the International School of Kenya and the International School of Uganda.
So there are some big-name ones with robust programs, but again, they’re also very full.
Greg:
The timing is difficult. You have to find a position for yourself at a school that has the level of support you’re looking for. That’s a powerful list.
JP:
It’s a Venn diagram where everything has to fit.
Christian:
It is. It can be very limiting in terms of where you can apply.
I was in Budapest over Christmas break to see the Christmas markets, and I thought, “What a beautiful place this would be to live and work.” But for families like mine, it probably won’t work because it’s not as welcoming to people with special needs culturally. They don’t have a lot of services in the city, and not many international schools can really take children with extra needs.
That kind of rules out a whole country.
Greg:
Most international schools nowadays, if they want to be a name and draw in students, need to have at least some baseline learning support. They need to prove that for accreditation. But it’s often not autism or higher-end social-emotional needs. It’s the lower-level supports like dyslexia and mild needs.
It breaks my heart. I don’t always ask that question at schools because I’m a mainstream specialist teacher. I don’t have those questions in mind.
Can we talk a little about what it’s like to interview with a school about special needs and learning support? What are things you have to go through internationally that might be different from the States?
Christian:
In the States, because of the laws, it’s built into public schools. They have to have some sort of services. Education is universal. Everybody has to be able to go to school.
You don’t even have to ask about it in an interview because there will be a school in your district that can take your child. I taught structured pre-K in the States for children with autism, ages three to five. Not every school had that program, but out of five schools, two might. There was going to be a place for your child.
Internationally, first, you have to do research beforehand based on learning support. Some schools don’t post it on their website, so it can be tricky to know.
When you’re interviewing, you don’t want to come out with it right away because a lot of schools will decide the interview is finished. Maybe by the third interview, you can ask, “For students with needs, what level of support can you offer? What programs do you have? Do you have therapies? Is it more push-in? Do you have separate classrooms in learning support?”
Based on those questions, you can gauge what level of support is offered. Then, depending on how you’re feeling, talking about your own child becomes a very personal question. It’s up to you when to talk about it.
Some people don’t bring it up until after they get a job offer, if they feel the school can offer the services their child needs. Others talk about it before the offer because they’re worried they won’t get the offer otherwise.
That has happened to me. I won’t name the school or country, but I interviewed with a school that had me do seven interviews for a role. Then when they found out about my son, they basically said, “Thank you, but no thank you.”
JP:
That’s why you said by the third interview. In the grand scheme of things, most third interviews are the offer interview. I always say to my clients: the first interview depends on who it is. The second interview usually brings in new people. By the third interview, you’re often getting into the final stage.
But you’re saying wait until the third because you’ve had the experience of seven interviews, which is crazy.
Greg, have you ever had to do seven interviews for a position?
Greg:
I’ve had five. But I don’t have a special needs child. My complications are minimal as far as my life, teaching credentials, and so on. I’m very low impact on a school.
For me, it has always been transparency, which is easy because I don’t have a lot of tricky situations. But Christian, what you’re saying is that you need to read the person in the interview and know when the time is right to bring up very specific deal-breakers.
There are certain deal-breakers that need to come up. I’m a fan of transparency. If that’s a deal-breaker, I want to know in the first interview so I don’t waste my time on the next three or four interviews.
However, there’s something to be said for the way Christian has to approach it because this is very delicate. It has to do with personal family needs. It also has to do with not insulting a program they may already have or may be building.
If you’re too critical when asking what they offer, they might turn off because they get a different impression of you as a person. It’s not an easy conversation to have, even if you’re in the specialty.
JP:
The good news is that now you’re in that department, so it makes complete sense that you would ask what their learning support program looks like. You can mask the reason you’re asking because it’s going to be your job.
Is that what you see yourself doing from this point on?
Christian:
Yes, I would like to keep going. I don’t know if I’ll stay in grade four because you realize there are age bands you really like. I’m realizing I’m more of an early childhood person, maybe up to grade two. Hopefully I’ll get back down to that age at some point.
I’ve wanted to get into learning support for the last six or seven years. I was a special education teacher in the States and really enjoyed it. But when I went overseas, there weren’t that many opportunities in special education, so I went back into the mainstream classroom, which was great.
I spent the next few years doing more PD and getting more certifications to get back into this role. My school had an opportunity, and they were gracious enough to let me move. I’m hoping to stay in learning support as we move forward.
Greg:
That’s your wheelhouse. Bless you, man.
Every school I’ve been at that has learning support takes a special kind of teacher to deal with kids who need extra support across a spectrum of things. You have a lot of experience from the past, and you carry that with you as a homeroom teacher and mainstream teacher.
I appreciate that. I can only try to be that person who has an inkling of what special needs is like and carry that into homeroom. Along with PE teachers and male pre-K teachers, God bless you all.
Christian:
What I love about this role is that I really like being able to support the team of teachers. I’m a big fan of the push-in model, where you can go into the classroom and really team teach or offer support.
Coming from the classroom, I know it can be a lot trying to manage. Our school has 22 kids per class, and I guess up to 24 in the older grades. Trying to manage that many different personalities and learning needs can be overwhelming for a teacher.
Having someone come in and say, “I can make that for you,” or, “I can offer you this program and set it up,” instead of putting it all back on the homeroom teacher, is really great. Building those partnerships is a big part of it.
JP:
But then think about how many homerooms there are. You said you’re grade four, which is very specialized, but there might be three or four homeroom teachers that all need support, and you’re one person. You can’t be divided into four classes.
Christian:
That has been the challenge this year because there are eight grade four classes at my school, and it’s just me as the grade four learning support teacher.
The challenge is how to balance the kids who really need the support versus kids where I can offer materials to the teachers in the classroom to meet their needs, or do one-on-one support at different points in the day. Maybe math skill-building, a quick literacy lesson, or handwriting in the morning with some children.
It’s finding those pockets. But it is always a time challenge.
Schools are seeing that there are more children coming into international schools who have needs. Even if the needs are mild, that still requires extra support throughout the day.
Because it’s getting more competitive — even in Singapore, there are more international schools opening. I think there are now up to about 55 international schools in Singapore, which is a lot for a small island city-state. Competition is fierce.
Schools are having to accept children they would not have accepted eight years ago, and then they have to figure out how to support them in the classroom because they need them in the school.
We are also getting more sophisticated at diagnosing. We are noticing patterns of behavior earlier. Parents are more open to getting their students diagnosed and assessed. So there are a lot more needs.
On one hand, that’s good because now we can offer support children actually need, instead of saying, “He’s just having a hard time,” or, “There’s nothing wrong with him.” We can give the support they need to be successful.
But schools now have to step up and ask, “How can we change? What can we change to accept this new population of students?”
We’re not only seeing that with special needs, but also with language. More students are coming in with language needs. In the past, schools might have said, “You can’t come here because you have to have a certain level of English.” Now they’re saying, “Please come. We’ll add more support.”
A good example is Hong Kong. The school I was at didn’t even have EAL teachers. You had to speak perfect English to be accepted. Now they’re realizing that doesn’t work anymore, so they’ve opened a Chinese-English track, a Mandarin track, because they need to keep enrollment up.
Things are always changing. It is more and more of a competition between schools and who they can keep to fill those seats.
Greg:
We’ve seen that competition. The brunt of it happens when a school is overwhelmed and starts bringing in families below the line of acceptance they had in the past.
A student arrives, and the parents say they don’t have any problems. Then the teachers realize something is going on. You have a problem year, and then you have to plead with the parents to get a diagnosis or some help.
At my current school, two years ago was tough because I noticed a trifecta. We had increased the ceiling of students in classrooms to around 26 instead of 20. Among those students, we had more additional-language students, students with social-emotional needs, and students with special needs.
So we had higher numbers, language needs, and special needs all at once. We weren’t doing any of them correctly in my mind, but we worked through it and have gone in a different direction.
Schools are businesses, and they start accepting students. Then they realize, “Wait, we’ve let in a lot of students with different needs that we’re not prepared for.” Then parents start asking, “Why can’t you help my student?”
I worked at a school in Cambodia years ago where I did special needs part-time and technology. The art teacher also did part-time learning support. It sounds crazy, but it worked at some level.
The problem was that about half the students sent to us for learning support didn’t need learning support. They needed language support. They weren’t social-emotional or special needs students. It was a language issue, and they were being sent to us instead of a language teacher.
JP:
Which brings me to a question, Christian. We’re talking about what it was like before and what it is like now. It’s not like all these special needs just started. They’ve always been there.
What has changed, in your opinion? Why are we noticing it more?
Christian:
I think people are more educated now. We’re in a technology age where you’re constantly seeing things on TikTok, Instagram, and so on.
TikTok and Instagram can be a double-edged sword with fake news and bad medical choices, but they also bring to the forefront families with children with special needs who are showing their lives and being real about what they saw at the beginning and how they knew their child had these needs.
That education is helping more families accept it and be willing to take their child to a psychologist or developmental pediatrician earlier.
JP:
It’s being destigmatized.
Christian:
Hopefully, in some places.
I also think diagnostic criteria are becoming more specific. They’re able to look more clearly at markers and behaviors for different neurodiversities. Things in the past that maybe wouldn’t have been seen as ADHD or autism are now recognized as part of those profiles.
We’re seeing more adults getting diagnosed with ADHD because the symptoms and behaviors are clearer. That has also led to more children being diagnosed with different neurodiversities over time.
JP:
Where do you think we’re going? Do you think schools will expand these departments, or do you think homeroom teachers will become more specialized and able to handle a certain number of needs in the classroom?
Christian:
I think it will be a mix.
International schools are seeing more demand. Families want these services, so I think some programs will expand. Most schools probably won’t go into high needs because that takes a lot more manpower, space, facilities, and one-on-one help.
Moderate needs are where I think we’ll start seeing more growth in international schools: larger learning support programs and more services for teachers. It will take time. It won’t be a quick change. Maybe over the next decade we’ll see more of that.
I also think UDL, Universal Design for Learning, is becoming more common. It’s about supporting teachers in the classroom to meet the needs of all students, not only mild needs but moderate needs too. What supports can we give? What training can we give teachers? How can we build their skills so the classroom is more inclusive?
In the States, they talk about the least restrictive environment. If a student can meet the needs of a mainstream math class, they go to mainstream math. Maybe they come out for literacy or PE or other things.
I think international schools are trying to move toward more flexibility in the services they provide. We’ll start seeing a mix over time. Right now, UDL is the big thing, and schools are doing a lot of teacher training. But it will probably take five or six years to really get into the groove.
Greg:
In my opinion, more schools are starting to have IEPs for students, with input from different teachers the child sees, not just one learning support teacher or one learning support team.
That’s something I’ve seen change around the world over the last 20 years. Information is starting to flow with the child, not as a label, but as a way to ask, “How can we help? What are we noticing?”
It’s a lot of work for teachers to have three or four IEPs in a room, but you can’t get away from it anymore, even in international schools. We have kids who need specific help in their own individualized plan. They deserve it.
JP:
And deserve international schools. They deserve to be in the classrooms.
Just to clarify for non-educators, IEP stands for Individualized Education Plan, where the child’s needs and accommodations are systematized.
Christian:
My school started that as well, and it’s really good for specialist teachers so they can see the students coming into their classes. They have so many students, so it helps them know what’s happening with different students in each class.
Greg:
At the beginning of the year, we have meetings where the specialists sit down with learning support and briefly go over students. These are some things to look out for, things that can help the student, flags, reminders, and then we keep in touch.
Christian:
Greg, your school is a company school, and families are told to come with their jobs. Does your school have services for different needs of children? Because families kind of have to go to your school if they come.
Greg:
I’d say we do have a lot of services, but I’m not going to comment too much. A lot of families are happy with what we have at certain levels and unhappy at other levels.
Some families will come, some will go, and some will keep their kids there. The company supports families who work for the company, and they also support them to look for other schools if we don’t meet all their needs.
That’s important: for a school to be transparent about what they do and don’t have. It’s not about “We don’t want your kids.” It’s more like, “We want what’s best for your child. We don’t have the support in place, but let us help you find options.”
That’s the kind of school I want to work at.
JP:
That works in bigger cities where there are options. Singapore has 55 schools, so there will be schools that can meet those needs.
But in one-off countries or one-off cities where there is only one international school, that’s going to be tough for parents of kids with special needs, whether they are teachers or NGO families moving into a small country. They may have to consider not moving to those places.
Christian:
Or homeschooling.
Greg:
That’s why people need to get onto Christian’s Facebook group. It sounds like the kind of information sharing people need. Families need to know the right questions to ask and deal with the needs of their family.
We could talk for another hour. Usually these are only an hour, and we need to have you come back — with your dad.
Before we close, we have two quick questions. JP, which one do you want to ask first?
JP:
I’m thinking the transition is nice here: you have certain needs, and then what are three things you need to make a place feel like home?
Christian:
I was thinking about this. I’ve moved maybe six or seven times internationally, just to different houses.
One is pictures. I’m really into art and pictures, and I’ve collected them over the years overseas. When I move, one of the first things I do is put up my art on the walls, and then I can feel a little more settled. So definitely art.
This one is more amorphous, but when I find a new place, I want to be able to walk to a breakfast place or a cafe. For a place to really feel like home, it has to be within walking distance of a breakfast place. That’s something I always look for when I move.
The other thing is a centerpiece item I bought overseas. It’s a huge mirror made out of an old door. I bought it in Shanghai, and for me, that was my “I’m overseas now, I’ve made it” item. That has been the biggest thing I’ve moved every time.
JP:
You might be cursing that mirror.
I moved from artwork to fridge magnets. When I had 54 frames and was moving 54 frames from place to place, I started thinking there had to be a better way. I went to fridge magnets. They’re still heavy, but much more compact. I do love my artwork too.
Greg:
I’m going minimalist. My friends have things I’ve collected overseas and brought home as gifts. I think I’ll keep doing that so I have less in my suitcases.
I have one piece of artwork that my friend Joe has had since I left the States. It’s a piece of animation art of that frog that sings, “Hello, my baby, hello, my honey.” I’m dating myself. He says it’s his now, and I’m like, “Of course it’s yours now. It’s on your wall.”
One other question. Do you have a police or customs story you’d like to share from over the years?
Christian:
I was thinking about this before coming on. I don’t really have any good police stories.
The only customs story I have was actually coming back into the US through immigration, after my first year in Shanghai. This was when the US and China were not really getting along very well. The immigration officer asked, “Why are you living in China?”
I said, “I’m teaching there.”
He said, “There are no jobs you can teach here in the US?”
I said, “Well, not ones that will pay my bills.” I started sniping back at him a little.
He didn’t really love that answer, but he stamped me through.
The other funny one wasn’t really about me, but I was flying out of a tiny airport in a small Midwestern state where my mother lives. The ticket booth guy was looking through my passport and said, “Oh my gosh, you have so many stamps in here.”
I said, “I live overseas. I’ve done some traveling.”
He said, “I’ve been nowhere.”
Then he stamped it and had me move on. I said, “Enjoy your day.”
Greg:
There are crabby people all over the place. “There are no jobs here in the US?” That’s funny.
JP:
Christian, do you have any final thoughts for families out there who are despairing and thinking, “There’s no place we can find”? What would you say to them?
Christian:
I would say, like we say in the group, there are places for you to go. There are schools that will be accepting of your family and can provide the services your child needs.
It may be a longer road to find those positions, but you just need to find the one that works for your family. It is out there. There are more schools every day offering these supports.
Keep the hope up. Keep applying. International life can be for your family as well.
JP:
Greg, final thoughts?
Greg:
I want Christian to come back on the show. We have more to talk about: special needs, learning support, single fatherhood. That’s fantastic.
I can’t imagine the interview process you have. There are a lot of questions and a lot of things you need from a school, as well as what you give to a school.
Thank you for coming on and talking about this. It’s always difficult for me because I know we can’t reach every child and every need, but we can try within our means.
JP:
I’d like to thank Christian for calling in from Singapore and bringing such a unique perspective on international teaching. As Greg said, we could talk for hours about this.
We hope you come back, and we’d love to meet your dad and see that dynamic as well.
I’d like to thank Greg, my co-host, who you can find in which room now, Greg?
Greg:
I think I’m in 108 still.
JP:
Room 108. And I’m Jaclyn from JP Mint Consulting. You can find me at jpmintconsulting.com.
Thank you so much for joining this episode, everyone, and we’ll see you next time.