ITP - 139: Leadership, Hiring, and Life in China

JP: Okay, hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the International Teacher Podcast. I am joined today with Greg the Single Guy.

Greg: Hey everybody, how you doing, JP?

JP: And folks, we are in for a treat because we have an actual on-air reunion between Greg’s friend, Chris Irvin, and Greg. Hi, Chris.

Chris: Hello, thanks for having me.

JP: Where are you calling us from?

Chris: So I’m in Shenzhen, China, which is southern China in Guangdong Province, right across from Hong Kong.

JP: Nice. Yeah, I’ve been to Shenzhen. It’s kind of the tech capital of China, isn’t it?

Chris: It absolutely is a reunion because we worked together at Colegio Internacional de Puerto La Cruz in Venezuela. We spent quite a few years together there.

Chris: Greg was affectionately known as “Goyo” by everyone. He had great moments and moments where his car got stolen too. I was there through all the ups and downs.

Greg: You rescued my anchor from another boat once, remember that?

Chris: Yeah, that’s right. We both owned boats. That was life down there.

Greg: I left in 2013.

Chris: Yeah, that’s the last time I saw Greg.

JP: Chris, you stayed on in Venezuela.

Chris: I did. I stayed as long as I could, then moved into leadership at another school before eventually leaving.

Chris: I’m from Ottawa, Canada. I grew up in Manor Park, then Lindenlea, then back to Lindenlea again.

JP: Wait, you went to Manor Park Public School?

Chris: Yes.

JP: You’d know my brother, Michael Malay.

Chris: Yeah, I haven’t heard that name in a long time.

Greg: ITP listeners, this is a reunion like none other.

Chris: My dad was a teacher and later became president of the OSSTF in Eastern Ontario. My mom worked for the Ottawa-Carleton School Board doing administrative work.

Chris: I didn’t go straight into teaching. I worked as an outdoor guide—ski instructor in winter, guiding in summer.

Chris: Eventually I realized there wasn’t a long-term plan there, so I went back to Teachers College at Queen’s University.

Chris: That’s where I learned about the Toronto Overseas Recruitment Fair, TORF.

Chris: TORF is realistic. Only about 10 to 20 percent of new grads get jobs. Visa requirements usually require two years of experience.

Chris: I didn’t get hired directly at the fair, but through Queen’s I ended up teaching PE in inner Venezuela. It was a privately owned school with a Canadian principal who hired several Queen’s grads.

Chris: After one year, I was headhunted to a better school. I helped start an athletic conference and eventually stayed in Venezuela for 22 years across three schools.

Chris: One school had a seven-year clause where you switched to a local contract. I did that for family reasons. My wife was Venezuelan, we had kids, and we had support nearby.

Chris: Later, due to inflation, I renegotiated to be paid in U.S. dollars.

JP: That must have been a big shift financially.

Chris: It was necessary at the time. The economic situation made it difficult otherwise.

Chris: I eventually moved into a Dean of Students role and started leadership training through PTC. That’s when I realized administration was the direction I wanted to go.

Greg: That’s a pretty natural progression for a lot of people.

Chris: Yes, and after some time in leadership, I decided it was time to leave Venezuela.

JP: So how did you land on China?

Chris: We had a few key things we were looking for. We wanted a larger school, a functional country, an IB continuum, and strong opportunities for our kids.

Chris: We ended up in Shenzhen at a full IB continuum school.

JP: And what’s your current role there?

Chris: I’m a middle school principal, grades six to eight, with just over 200 students. The full school is about 800 students from pre-K to grade 12.

JP: And your kids?

Chris: Our oldest studied Mandarin at the University of Shenzhen, then moved to Dalhousie University for marine biology.

Chris: Our younger son is at the University of Waterloo studying biochemistry.

Greg: So you’re empty nesters now.

Chris: Yes, which is a different phase of life.

JP: What’s life like in China for you right now?

Chris: China is very safe, especially for teenagers. They have a lot of independence. They can order food, take taxis, ride scooters.

Chris: We live on campus, which creates a bit of an expat bubble, but it’s a great lifestyle.

JP: What about language? Are you picking up Mandarin?

Chris: Mandarin is tough. Smartphones make it harder to learn because you don’t really need to speak.

Chris: You can scan menus, order food, call cars, and function pretty easily without learning the language deeply.

Greg: That’s kind of a double-edged sword.

Chris: It really is. It makes life convenient, but it also keeps you from fully engaging with the language.

JP: What about your community outside of school?

Chris: Most of my friends outside school are other educators. That’s pretty typical in international settings.

Chris: Recently, I had emergency back surgery, which forced me to rethink my health and wellness.

Greg: That’ll do it.

Chris: It definitely changes your perspective.

JP: Let’s talk about school life. Any fun moments recently?

Chris: We had a Halloween assembly. I dressed up as “6–7,” which is an IB grading joke.

Chris: The middle schoolers loved it, but they also roasted me for it.

Greg: That’s middle school for you.

JP: Let’s shift into hiring. What are you looking for when you’re hiring teachers?

Chris: Fit matters more than credentials alone.

Chris: I always look for the “plus one.” What does someone bring beyond teaching?

Chris: Creativity, stability, fresh perspective, the ability to listen.

Chris: IB is a framework, not a curriculum. We can train people in IB, especially outside of DP.

Chris: For DP, we do need certification, but otherwise we hire strong teachers and train them.

JP: That’s great advice for candidates.

Chris: Yes, and I always tell people, don’t eliminate yourself. Apply even if you don’t have IB experience.

Chris: Timing and fit matter. Ask schools what they’re looking for right now in a candidate.

Greg: That’s really valuable advice.

JP: Do you have a police story for us?

Chris: Yes. In Venezuela, I once ran a red light at night and got pulled over.

Chris: The officer wanted a bribe, but not money. He asked for honey.

JP: Honey?

Chris: Yes. I brought him three bottles of artisanal honey the next day, and that was that.

Greg: That’s a new one.

JP: Final thoughts?

Chris: There are pearls of wisdom in every story. Focus on what you can learn.

Chris: Most of us in international education are lifelong learners.

JP: From Manor Park Public School to Shenzhen, China, what a journey. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Greg: Thanks, Chris. It’s been amazing reconnecting.

Chris: Thank you so much for having me.

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