ITP - 136: Teaching in Pakistan with Kids and Finding the Right School

JP: Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the International Teacher Podcast. I am joined with Greg the Single Guy — tech support today.

Greg: Well, thank you very much, JP. It’s good to be back online.

JP: I think you’re tech support every day, pretty much whenever we have the episodes. And we are having a repeat guest. So we’re very excited to see Hannah and Jake Loney. Hey, Hannah and Jake, how are you guys?

Hannah: Hi. Yeah, we’re good.

JP: Our avid fans will maybe remember Hannah and Jake were in Kuwait, then went back to the States, then went back to Kuwait — but now they’re somewhere else. So we get to talk all about this.

JP: They also have a couple of boys. So this is going to be a great episode for people thinking about moving overseas with kids and wondering: is this possible? Here is the proof — Hannah and Jake.

JP: So welcome, and thanks for coming back on the show.

Hannah: Thanks for having us.

Greg: Yeah, that was almost 30 episodes ago. We’re on around 130 right now, and we had them back on 99 right before the 100th episode.

Greg: That one was only audio — not video — so it’s fun to have you here now. And surprise, you’re on video if you haven’t seen us in a while. We can’t wait to talk about where you are now.

JP: So for new listeners — and anyone who doesn’t go back to episode 99 — can you give us a quick summary of your overseas experience and how you got into international teaching?

Hannah: Yeah. I went to school for teaching. I was a teacher for one year in the States, teaching in Texas.

Hannah: We met at college, and we got married. Right after we got married, we went to Brazil. I was a TCK — a third culture kid — in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, so I went to a small international school there — not one of the big ones people would know.

Hannah: We spent two years in Rio teaching. I wasn’t originally in education — I was a trailing spouse — but I took an alternative route into education and got my teaching credentials through Moreland.

Hannah: After two years, we decided to go to Kuwait. We were in Kuwait for three years. We had our first son in Kuwait, right before COVID.

JP: Was that the story about the baby exchange during COVID? Everybody has to go back to episode 99 and listen to that one. It’s a great story.

JP: I still tell people that story, and it stayed with me 30 episodes later. So please go listen to the baby exchange during COVID — car to car. It’s fantastic.

JP: So you guys went back to the States.

Hannah: Yes.

Greg: Go back to 99. Go listen to it.

Hannah: Yeah, so we were in Texas for about two years — just under two years. We decided we weren’t happy in the States and we wanted to get back into the international teaching world.

Hannah: So we contacted our school in Kuwait and said, “Hey, do you have any availability for next year?” They welcomed us back with open arms, and we went back for another three years.

Hannah: This last school year was our sixth and final year in Kuwait. And now we are in Pakistan — Karachi, Pakistan.

JP: Karachi, Pakistan. And you had a second child in there — was that in the States?

Hannah: Yes. He was born literally a couple weeks after we decided to move back. So it was a crazy time — moving houses, having a baby and a two-year-old, and flying back to Kuwait.

Hannah: At the time, I thought I wanted to get out of education because I wasn’t enjoying what education had become in the States.

Hannah: I actually had a job lined up with a hedge fund to be their tech guy. But I thought about it and realized I don’t dislike education — I dislike what it’s become with all the requirements and no time.

Hannah: I had a good time teaching internationally, so we decided to go do that again.

JP: And have you changed your mind since? You’re not looking at hedge funds in the near future?

Hannah: No. I don’t think I would have been happy, honestly. I like education.

JP: Greg often talks about how teaching overseas is a lot like teaching back home — but also isn’t.

JP: One of the biggest differences is the respect we get as teachers overseas, compared to our home countries, where it can feel like people assume we chose teaching for vacations and short hours.

JP: Can you tell our audience about the differences you saw — since you’ve taught in both?

Hannah: Yeah. The workload is more reasonable and the balance is better. I’m not saying the days are short.

Hannah: But in Texas there was a law where we all had to get extra training that wasn’t paid — it was like taking a college course on top of everything.

Hannah: When I had a kid at home, there was no time during the day to do all of that.

Hannah: Whereas here — and it was true in Kuwait too — I have a lot more planning periods. The biggest thing is that the work-life balance feels better.

Hannah: In the States, I took work home. I paid out of pocket for classroom supplies.

Hannah: I had started at a brand-new school, and I was given a tiny cupboard of supplies. I was teaching preschool, and on the first day I didn’t have materials.

Hannah: My AP said, “Just get to know them.” And I was thinking, they’re pre-K — I need toys, puppets, things to engage them.

Greg: Wow.

Hannah: It was reverse culture shock. We weren’t used to being expected to buy everything for our classroom. That hasn’t been the case anywhere else we’ve been.

JP: I’m seeing GoFundMe and Amazon wish lists shared on Facebook groups — “help me supply my classroom.” And I think, what happened?

JP: The teacher is responsible for learning, not equipping the classroom.

Hannah: Exactly. And if you pay for something and a child destroys it, you’re out that money.

Greg: So flip that on its head. What’s it like teaching in Karachi right now?

Greg: Supplies, students — what’s the situation?

Hannah: It’s amazing. Our classrooms are funded — we have everything. At this school, we each have a teaching assistant.

Hannah: I have a class of eight students.

Greg: What? You must be so overworked with 16 students — my god.

Hannah: I know, I’m exhausted.

Hannah: If I need something, I ask my assistant. I’ll say, “I want to do this activity next week,” and she’ll have it in 10 minutes.

JP: Is the assistant a local teacher or an international assistant teacher?

Hannah: Mine is local. Jake’s is kind of international — she’s married to a local.

JP: So they have the local language. Do you have mostly local students?

Hannah: Yes. Most of our students are Pakistani, maybe some with dual citizenship. We have a few international students.

JP: Let’s talk curriculum. Is it completely different or familiar?

Hannah: We use i-Ready. It’s an online program — not online all the time, but the curriculum is there.

Hannah: The kids can do lessons and games online, and it tailors lessons to their skills. We can also assign lessons.

Hannah: It’s also part of Magnetic Reading, so we have physical books too.

Hannah: Our books were stuck in port for the first month, but we had online resources and admin said, “Print as much as you need — go for it.”

JP: That’s one of the realities overseas — waiting for shipments.

JP: You have to be flexible.

Hannah: We didn’t feel behind because we could print and go.

Hannah: For science, we use Mystery Science. Everything is tied to Common Core standards.

Hannah: For social studies, we use AERO standards, which I’ve used before.

Hannah: Social studies is the one we’re building most, because people have done their own thing.

Hannah: We’re working toward a more set curriculum.

JP: That’s the reality overseas. International teachers from all over bring “suitcase curriculum.”

Greg: Social studies is hard because you want to make it relevant — not only US-focused — and connected to the host country.

Hannah: Yeah.

Greg: Every time you go to a new country, you sort of feel like a new teacher — even though you’re experienced.

Hannah: Yeah.

JP: Can we talk about onboarding? Some teachers worry they’ll land and have to find an apartment and do everything alone.

JP: How did your school handle that?

Hannah: Our school picked us up at the airport and already had a house for us. We’re on campus.

Hannah: They had food in the fridge, some basics in the kitchen, sheets on the bed — the basics.

Hannah: They were welcoming. They gave us cash at the airport, and the next day gave us more cash for shopping.

Hannah: Getting here was tricky. We got sick, had flight delays, missed connections, and 16 lost suitcases.

Hannah: It was one of those trips.

JP: Did you ever get the suitcases back?

Hannah: Yes. A couple of days later. Our head of transportation took care of everything. We signed documents at the airport and they handled the rest.

Hannah: We have a house on campus, so my commute is about two minutes.

Greg: That school is taking good care of you.

Hannah: Our boys literally run to school every morning and race to the playground.

JP: Tell us about their experience.

Hannah: They love it here. Kuwait was great for family life, but it’s desert. We didn’t spend as much time outside because of the heat and concrete.

Hannah: Here, our youngest, Lincoln, loves the outdoors. The campus has trees and birds.

Hannah: We have a tortoise named Speedy and a turtle pond. They take care of cats on campus — there’s someone who looks after them and gets them vaccinated.

Hannah: The campus is very green. There’s a track and playground. The boys are happy.

JP: What ages are they?

Hannah: Lincoln is three — he’s in pre-K 3. Our oldest is five and in kindergarten.

Hannah: They’re in the early learning center, in separate classrooms. They start each day on the playground and shoo us away.

JP: And are you early years now or elementary?

Hannah: I’m elementary now. I was early years in Kuwait for a long time, but teaching early years and then being home with early years was hard.

Hannah: I was getting burnt out. I’m teaching fourth grade this year, and Jake is teaching third grade.

Greg: I could never do that — parent of toddlers and teaching little kids. I have 650 students K–3 as a tech teacher and my brain is mush.

Hannah: It’s easier when I have eight students at a time. We’re spoiled this year.

Greg: Eight students with an assistant — that’s crazy.

Hannah: It’s so much one-on-one. And our boys are in small classes too — one has six kids, the other has ten — and I love that for them.

JP: Are they picking up the local language?

Hannah: Yes. Our oldest was singing the days of the week song from Urdu class.

Greg: Next birthday he’ll ask for a cricket bat.

Hannah: Probably. We haven’t been to cricket yet. There was a big match between India and Pakistan recently and it was close, but I don’t understand the scoring.

JP: Onboarding — did you have a transition week?

Hannah: Not really, because we were two of three new hires. There isn’t much turnover. People have been here five to eight years.

Hannah: We had about a week, and it’s been more like, “What do you need? What did we miss? Let us know.”

JP: Tailor-made onboarding.

Greg: Every school does it differently. If your cohort is small, you may not have the big orientation program.

Greg: A good onboarding experience makes people more likely to stay.

JP: The turnover sounds low — five to eight years is a good sign.

Hannah: It doesn’t seem like there’s a lot of drama. People seem happy and pretty stress-free.

Greg: Your family already handled Kuwait. Now when people hear Pakistan, they might react differently.

Greg: How did your family respond?

Hannah: Our parents were more nervous. They had visited Kuwait and felt it was safe.

Hannah: Pakistan sounded different to them. Friends didn’t always understand the difference — but it’s very different.

JP: Can people visit you?

Hannah: They can, but we’re in a bit of a bubble. We can see some things, but we’re limited in where we can go for safety.

Hannah: We have a security team. When we go out, we go with armed guards, and there are bulletproof vehicles.

Hannah: We have to set up transport ahead of time. We can’t just decide on the spot to go somewhere — we have to plan, usually by the morning.

JP: So you have to be planners.

Hannah: Yeah, definitely. You have to think ahead a little bit more.

Greg: Does that feel restrictive, or have you kind of adjusted to it?

Hannah: I think we’ve adjusted. It’s different, but it’s also just part of life here. You plan ahead, and then when you go out, everything is taken care of.

Hannah: In some ways, it actually feels very safe because you know there’s a system in place.

JP: That’s an interesting perspective, because from the outside people might assume the opposite.

Hannah: Yeah, I think a lot of it is perception versus reality.

Greg: And I think that’s true of a lot of places in international teaching. People hear a country name and immediately have an idea in their head.

JP: Right, and that’s why conversations like this are so important.

JP: So for teachers listening who might be considering a move somewhere like Pakistan, what would you say to them?

Hannah: I would say keep an open mind.

Hannah: Do your research, ask questions, and talk to people who are actually there.

Hannah: Every place has its challenges, but it also has its positives. And for us, the positives here have been really strong.

Greg: And it sounds like for families especially, you’ve found a really supportive environment.

Hannah: Yes, definitely. Our kids are happy, and that’s a huge part of it.

JP: That’s always the deciding factor.

Greg: Happy kids, happy life.

JP: Exactly.

Greg: All right, let’s start to wrap this up. Hannah and Jake, thanks so much for coming back on and sharing your story again.

Hannah: Thanks for having us.

JP: It’s been great catching up and hearing about Karachi and everything you’re doing there.

Greg: And for everyone listening, if you haven’t already, go back and check out episode 99 to hear the full story — especially that baby exchange story.

JP: It’s worth it.

Greg: All right, thanks everyone for listening. We’ll see you next time.

JP: Bye, everyone.

Greg: Don’t be angry, but when I leave, I’m going to leave Kent.

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