ITP - 130: Why “I’m Right” Is Ruining Your Classroom (And What to Do Instead)

Greg: Welcome to another exciting episode of the International Teacher Podcast. My name is Greg. I'm Greg the Single Guy. And with me, of course, is Kent coming from Washington. Tell us, hello Kent.

Kent Arimura: Hey, great to be here, Greg. Thanks for having me.

Greg: Awesome. And JP Mint down in Mexico. Welcome to the show.

JP Mint: Hello, hello.

Greg: And also from Washington, we have our special guest. It is Nicholas Bradford from Washington also. So thank you for joining our show, Nicholas.

Kent Arimura: You're from Washington.

Nicholas: Yeah, thanks for having me. Pleasure to be here.

Greg: What's so funny, Kent?

Kent Arimura: What?

JP Mint: What are you laughing at?

Kent Arimura: Are you Vancouver, Washington or Vancouver, BC?

Nicholas: No, Washington. Yeah.

Kent Arimura: Okay. I stand corrected then.

Greg: Well, I said Washington, audience, so therefore I'm right. Kent is asleep. It's way too late for him now that he's retired. He should have been in bed like two hours ago.

Kent Arimura: It's like 9:30 at night. I'm ready for a nap. I was all excited because I thought Nicholas was like a half hour away. Turns out he's like 20 hours away. I don't know where Vancouver, Washington is.

Greg: Right.

Nicholas: We're right next to Portland.

Greg: So yeah, my gosh. Audience, anybody in the audience wants to send a map to Kent, maybe he can learn where parts of Washington are. He's been out of the country for a while.

Kent Arimura: I've been there. It's not like the same place. He's right across the river from Portland.

JP Mint: A map of Washington, his home state.

Kent Arimura: Listen, I know more about the Middle East than I know about my own state. I'm going to be honest.

Greg: There you go.

Greg: Well, let's get on point here. Nicholas, you're joining us on the International Teacher Podcast. Can you give us a short little elevator pitch on your experience in education? What brought you to where you are now?

Nicholas: Okay, the short elevator pitch is I was a teacher. I come from a family of teachers and I worked with young people who have some behavioral challenges. At the same time I was doing that in Vermont, I got involved with some restorative justice work, doing some evening volunteer work, some weekend work, really excited about this. I met a couple of folks who were really influential in my career and ended up coming back to Washington State really excited about this sort of work in schools.

Nicholas: I got my master's in Ed Policy from the University of Washington and have been doing this work since 2012. Founded the National Center in 2016, almost 10 years, and next year is 10 years. So we're going to have some parties. Maybe Kent, you can come over. You're close. That's right. We'll be in Seattle and Portland for the parties.

Kent Arimura: Woohoo! Count me in, as soon as I find you on a map.

Greg: I'll be there.

JP Mint: Sure, let's make it an ITP reunion.

JP Mint: Can I just clarify, you're saying restorative justice. Would you be able to do an elevator pitch on what that is, just to bring us up to speed?

Nicholas: 100%. Yeah, for sure. This is part of our job and my mission is to make justice accessible and easy to understand. If you look at some of the documents people have put out internationally and nationally, it's a lot. But my sentence is it's a relational approach to conflict.

Nicholas: It's trying to do two things at the same time. It's trying to engage in conflict and build relationships. Any teacher will tell you that relationships are essential to teaching. And then when things get difficult, when things hit the fan, what do you do? Our response is how do we have systems and procedures that help us build relationships and engage in conflict at the same time.

JP Mint: And is it K to 12? Are you seeing this in kindergarten?

Nicholas: Yeah, so our work is K-12. One of my colleagues has done a lot of work in the pre-K space as well. There's also work in college dormitories and in communities, mostly around juvenile justice and some adult criminal justice situations. Young people can have diversion into restorative systems, and those systems look different but share similar principles.

Greg: I would love to talk about this stuff. I think you're right. I've been a teacher for a long time. Knowing the students is key before you can resolve any kind of dispute.

Kent Arimura: If someone can resolve our disputes, that would be great.

Nicholas: There's a great quote: most fights start with two words, "I'm right." And that's it. That's how you get into arguments.

Nicholas: There's no right way to load a dishwasher. My wife would leave the room when I changed diapers because I had my own method. There's no single right way.

Greg: The dad way.

JP Mint: Like one of those traps in the forest by your feet.

Nicholas: Exactly.

JP Mint: I would have to agree with Greg that it took me a while to figure out you can't just be the hammer. You can't just go in and hammer kids down. Once I got to know them, that built respect and communication.

Nicholas: Relationships are hard because you have 30 kids in a room. When students know each other, there's less meanness. You're less likely to hurt people you know, and even less likely to hurt people you care about.

Nicholas: When I was in high school, I had a small group of friends. In big schools, students often isolate themselves. We miss opportunities to build camaraderie and teamwork.

Kent Arimura: There's still a power imbalance. No matter how nice you are, you're the representative of the institution. You're holding the power.

Nicholas: You're absolutely right. Schools are not egalitarian systems. But that doesn't mean we can't be kind and care about young people. We can invite them into conversation and still maintain structure.

JP Mint: I think it's even more important now with phones and quick answers. Kids don't slow down to build relationships.

Nicholas: Restorative justice is slow, and that's a feature, not a bug. The instantaneous world is affecting both academics and relationships. Young people often have shallow or parasocial relationships.

Nicholas: They may play games together but not really know each other. We want to build the skills for deeper relationships.

Greg: Could you explain what happens in one of your workshops?

Nicholas: Most folks start with a three-day workshop. We work in groups of 20 to 30 and go from basics to serious harm scenarios. They leave with resources and tools to bring back to their schools.

Kent Arimura: Teachers can be the toughest group. They complain about icebreakers.

Nicholas: Within a few hours, teachers realize this applies to adults too. It's human work, not just student work. Schools need strong relationships among staff as well.

Nicholas: The structure of schools often limits adult collaboration. Limited time makes it hard to build relationships among staff, but it's critical.

JP Mint: If only one teacher attends, how does that help?

Nicholas: Ideally, teams attend, but one teacher can still make a difference. They can implement strategies in their classroom and influence others over time.

Nicholas: I remember a teacher who said, I can't control the district, but I can control my classroom. That's a stoic principle. Be the best teacher you can be.

JP Mint: That reminds me of my early teaching years. I was going to workshops alone and trying strategies.

Nicholas: Exactly. Others start to notice positive change and ask about it.

Greg: Without a safe classroom, there's no learning.

Nicholas: Discipline is an interesting word. It comes from disciple, meaning learner. I don't think there's a meaningful difference between discipline and self-discipline. External discipline is just punishment.

Greg: For me, it's about creating a safe environment.

Kent Arimura: Our audience is international schools. Does this apply there?

Nicholas: Yes, but challenges look different. High-performing schools deal with exclusion, subtle bullying, and cheating more than physical conflict.

Nicholas: Students may suffer silently. Strong relationships help them process that pain.

JP Mint: I had students say cheating was my fault if I didn't catch them.

Nicholas: That reflects a lack of ownership. With AI, this is becoming even more important.

Greg: I didn't care about learning until later in life.

Kent Arimura: Are things getting better or worse?

Nicholas: Data suggests things are improving overall, but COVID disrupted development. Behavior is spreading across a wider spectrum. Some students excel, others struggle significantly.

Nicholas: We need systems that support that range.

JP Mint: What are some practical takeaways?

Nicholas: Use non-judgmental language and pause. Say less. For example, "I noticed you were late." Then pause. Let the student think.

Nicholas: Ask, "What are the expectations?" Let them say it. What we say out loud builds neural pathways.

Greg: So they take ownership.

Nicholas: Exactly. Repetition builds that habit.

Nicholas: We also use accountability circles where students take responsibility and hear from peers. Peer pressure can be positive.

JP Mint: Is there written reflection?

Nicholas: Sometimes, especially for larger issues. But most work is verbal and relational.

Kent Arimura: Where can people find you?

Nicholas: National Center for Restorative Justice website or LinkedIn. We also run workshops internationally and attend conferences like EARCOS.

JP Mint: Do you have a police story?

Nicholas: I stayed out of trouble, but my brother didn't. He stole magazines from a store. My dad made him return them, admit it, and pay. It was a restorative experience.

Greg: Of course it was your brother.

Nicholas: You learn from others' mistakes.

JP Mint: Final thoughts—thank you. I wish I had this early in my career.

Greg: Thank you, Nicholas.

Nicholas: This work is personal. It helps you become a better teacher, parent, and partner.

Kent Arimura: Thanks to the ITP crowd. Check out our website and social media.

Nicholas: Thanks everyone. Appreciate it.