ITP - 110: Teaching Overseas After 50 (What Schools Won’t Tell You)

Greg:
Welcome everybody to a new episode. This is Greg the Single Guy for the International Teacher Podcast. I'm joined, of course, by JP Mint from Mexico. How you doing, JP?

JPMint:
Good morning! Hello, hello!

Greg:
Good morning.

And of course Kent, the Cat Guy with a different perspective. Welcome, Kent.

Kent The Cat Guy:
Hey, great to be here, Greg. Thanks for having me.

Greg:
And this is an exciting episode because we do have a returning guest. It is Stacy Stevens. She's the director of TIE Online, or what does TIE stand for, Stacy?

Stacy Stephens:
The International Educator.

Greg:
Excellent. Okay. Hi, Stacy. How are you?

Stacy Stephens:
Hi, good.

Greg:
And we also have with us—actually, Stacy is in the U.S.—and Lissa is joining us also. She's the marketing manager at TIE Online. Lissa, welcome from Europe, Amsterdam. Hi, Lissa. How are you?

Lissa Layman:
Thank you, good, thanks for having me.

Greg:
And how—I'm almost speechless right now. I've been writing a newsletter and I've been doing a lot of stuff because we're now on YouTube. If you're a listener of our podcast, we're streaming on YouTube videos—not live—but we do record these. You can join us from either the podcast of your choice or from YouTube, right Kent?

Kent The Cat Guy:
That's right, now everyone can tell how handsome I am.

Greg:
Exactly. Kent has been telling us to go to video for years and I kept refusing, but now we are on YouTube and we have a nice following. We'd like to have some more guests on for YouTube. JP, you want to get us started with our conversation about TIE Online?

JPMint:
Yes, so we've had Stacy before, so please go check out that podcast where we dig into Stacy's amazing background and the international journey she's gone on. But today Stacy is here to talk about her TIE Online Over 50 guide. I don't know what the exact title is. Stacy, take it away.

Stacy Stephens:
Thank you so much. So we did want to try and find some avenues for putting information out about this guide because we're really excited about it and we're really proud of the work that we've been doing.

Because one of the things that coming into TIE, I think people know The International Educator for a lot of different things. A lot of people know us for the newsletter, but we're also a recruiting portal where people can come in and schools can come in. Candidates come in and schools come in.

We do a lot of work around evidence-based recruiting and using standards, which is one of the things I think we chatted about the last time that I was here. But this is only my first year. I think I technically just maybe hit my anniversary here pretty recently about having been at TIE for a year.

Kent The Cat Guy:
Happy anniversary!

Greg:
Happy anniversary!

JPMint:
Yay!

Stacy Stephens:
Officially, I'll be there January 1st a year, but I definitely started my onboarding and learning about The International Educator about a year ago. I took the job. Thank you for the balloons. I appreciate that. See, that's why you have to watch on YouTube so you can see all the effects you guys don't know you have access to.

So one of the things that, when I came in as the new director, it was like, how do we serve different segments of the international community? And we've identified several different groups we'd really like to focus on and think about how do we best serve them.

But our very first one that we're launching right now is the Over 50 Guide, because I'll speak for myself personally, I think sometimes we don't realize that this might be an issue until you get really close to that age or you're at 50.

I think I got a little bit of a preview that it was an issue because I was working in China, and this was in the past decade, and China started to enforce its age rules where it kind of hadn't enforced its age rules before.

So I had worked at a school where we had people who were over—like one or two people who were over 65. One was over 70. And just the age that people were working at the school wasn't a concern. It wasn't an issue.

And it's one of the saddest things I ever experienced was the school having to enforce these age restrictions. The government gave us a few years to do it, but we really had to exit everybody who was over 60 in the building.

Greg:
What? You had to exit them?

Stacy Stephens:
Yeah, we did. And so I think I personally, having seen this—Lissa actually worked with me at ISB at this time—it was one of the most difficult things.

I've always really embraced working from a very young age and appreciated having really experienced educators on staff. The people that were over 60, I learned so much from, who had been in the profession for so long.

I think a really healthy staff has 25-year-olds to 65-year-olds in it. And so what you're seeing in some schools—China in particular—you couldn't have anybody over 60, which ultimately meant we couldn't hire anybody over 55.

And it ultimately meant if you were over 55 and you start to see this trend or this situation, you start to think, well, how long can I stay here? Because I want to work till I'm 65.

And so for me personally, that had a really big impact. Seeing that happen in a school, feeling the emotion of it, and seeing wonderful educators who were over 60 who didn't have a choice but to pivot and leave the school—and then seeing how hard it was to find that next position.

JPMint:
Well, hard for them to pick up another position, exactly. Because this was maybe their forever school, where they planned to stay until retirement. And then all of a sudden, they're having to recruit at 60 or 61. That's incredibly hard.

Stacy Stephens:
Yeah, or even 57 because they wanted to get somewhere they could land for seven or eight years.

Lissa, you were there when this happened. What was your perception of that?

Lissa Layman:
Well, I think kind of we were able to come there because there was such a huge turnover. I think our year that we came in, there were like 40 or 50 new people. And at a school like ISB, that is not a typical turnover.

So it was really interesting to come in with such a big group and kind of know that the only reason you're there is because so many people didn’t have a choice.

And thinking about all of that knowledge and experience that was lost and that we would have loved to learn from.

Greg:
Quick question. ISB, just for our listeners, can we say the name of the school?

Stacy Stephens:
Yeah, International School of Beijing.

JPMint:
Yeah, because there's ISB in Bangkok, Thailand, and others.

Greg:
Just thinking about our listeners.

Kent The Cat Guy:
Well, I would just like to say that this is a subject that hits home for me. I'm soon to be 55, and it's difficult when you hit the stride of your career in international teaching. You feel like your options begin to limit a little bit.

Now I know Greg is only hitting 25, so he doesn't have to worry about it for a long time, but I'm really curious what kind of advice you have, because right now it feels like it's getting more and more difficult for over 55 to find those positions.

Stacy Stephens:
And that's really the part of this that Lissa has really taken on in terms of crowdsourcing that information and the research that we've done to try and present some thinking to teachers. So I definitely want Lissa to be able to speak to this more than me because she's the one who actually did most of the work.

Lissa Layman:
Yeah, so it's interesting. I know that I am not over 50 yet, so a lot of this has been learning through research and listening to other people’s experiences. I started by gathering ideas and then refining them specifically for international educators.

From there, I created surveys to gather real experiences from both teachers and administrators. I wanted to understand not just policies, but what people are actually experiencing in schools.

So we had an admin survey asking about hiring policies for over 50, 55, and 60, and a teacher survey asking about lived experiences. Then we looked at what advice consistently came up and prioritized those ideas into a top 10 list.

Greg:
Are you going to keep us in the dark, or are you going to share a couple of your tips with our listeners?

Lissa Layman:
Yeah, absolutely. One of the biggest ones is demonstrating your commitment to lifelong learning. That means highlighting recent professional development, certifications, and showing that you’re still growing.

Not just listing everything you’ve ever done, but focusing on what’s recent and relevant. That shows schools that you’re still engaged and evolving.

JPMint:
And I think that’s really important because by the time you’re in your 50s, you’ve got a long list of PD. It can go on forever, so highlighting the most recent and relevant makes a big difference.

Lissa Layman:
Exactly. And also showing that you’re learning from colleagues. It’s not just about mentoring younger teachers, but also learning from them, especially with things like technology or new teaching strategies.

Stacy Stephens:
Another big one that resonates with me is planning backwards. If you know you want to work until 65, you need to start thinking about that earlier.

Where can you go? How long can you stay? What countries allow that? You can’t wait until you’re 58 to figure it out.

And the other piece is recalibrating expectations. Sometimes people are aiming for a small group of top-tier schools, but you may need to widen your scope and adjust expectations around salary or packages.

Greg:
I wish someone had told me that earlier in my career. Not that I would’ve listened, but it would’ve been nice to hear.

Stacy Stephens:
Right, and even if people don’t listen at the time, it’s still important to put that information out there.

Lissa Layman:
Another key point is being open-minded about location. There are a lot of great schools in places people might not initially consider.

And also thinking about healthcare. As you get older, access to quality healthcare becomes a major factor in deciding where to go.

JPMint:
That’s such a good point. I probably wouldn’t have even thought about that.

Lissa Layman:
Yeah, and we’re actually collecting data on healthcare systems and hiring policies by country so people can make more informed decisions.

Stacy Stephens:
That’s really part of our goal. Instead of people guessing or relying on outdated information, we want to provide data-driven guidance so they can focus their efforts where they have the best chance.

Kent The Cat Guy:
So it sounds like this is going to be an ongoing project that keeps evolving as more data comes in.

Lissa Layman:
Exactly. We’re not treating this as a static document. It’s something we’ll continue to update and improve as we gather more information.

Greg:
So where can people actually find this guide? Is it something they can download right now, or is it still in development?

Stacy Stephens:
It is available through TIE Online. We’re continuing to refine it, but we wanted to get it out there so people can start using it and also contribute feedback.

Lissa Layman:
Yes, and that’s a big part of it. We want this to be interactive. If people have experiences or insights, we want to include that in future updates.

JPMint:
That’s really powerful, especially for a topic like this where things are changing so quickly depending on the country and the policies.

Stacy Stephens:
Exactly. And policies don’t always tell the full story. Sometimes what’s written isn’t what’s actually happening in practice, so hearing from teachers directly is critical.

Kent The Cat Guy:
I think that’s what makes this so valuable. It’s not just theory, it’s real experiences.

Greg:
Let me ask you this. Are schools aware that this is becoming a bigger concern for teachers, or is this still kind of under the radar?

Stacy Stephens:
I think some schools are very aware, especially those that have had to deal with government restrictions. Others may not think about it as much until it becomes an issue.

But I do think there’s growing awareness, especially as more teachers are staying in the profession longer.

Lissa Layman:
And I think there’s also a conversation happening around the value of experienced educators. Schools benefit from having that range of experience, so it’s important to keep that balance.

JPMint:
Absolutely. There’s so much institutional knowledge and mentorship that comes with experience.

Greg:
All right, before we wrap this up, any final advice for teachers who are approaching that 50 mark and starting to think about their future?

Lissa Layman:
Start early. Be proactive. Don’t wait until it becomes urgent.

And stay informed. The more you know about different countries and their policies, the better decisions you can make.

Stacy Stephens:
And don’t panic. There are still opportunities out there. It just might take a little more strategy and flexibility.

Kent The Cat Guy:
That’s reassuring to hear.

Greg:
All right, I think that’s a great place to wrap this segment.

JPMint:
Thank you both for coming on and sharing this. It’s incredibly valuable.

Stacy Stephens:
Thank you for having us.

Lissa Layman:
Thank you.

Greg:
Great conversation.

JPMint:
So good.

Kent The Cat Guy:
And I'm Kent the Cat Guy. We’ll see you next time.

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